Brexit

[Mandryka]

I have been a little bit angry to Brits for being pro-Brexit, but lately the Brexit problems in the UK have become so bad that I have actually started feeling PITY for Brits. Their country is becoming fast a shithole country run by clowns. Until recently I had not followed UK politics very closely, but the more I follow, the worse it looks. Poor Brits! They are like Americans were under Trump's government of xenophobic and hate-based incompetence. Are we witnessing the downfall of the UK and its disintegration into pieces? 

You're exaggerating the problems, don't believe everything you read. Petrol stations were low  for a short while, but the causes were complex, and Brexit may not have been the main one. Anyway, not one of my suppliers had a problem supplying - I have a property business and I always need tradesmen to call at my houses, but there were zero cancellations due to fuel shortages. This is in London, which is reputedly the hardest hit. The supermarket shelves seem rammed at the moment - I've just got back from one of them.

My own feeling is that the idea that there are serious problems in the Uk is a European press fiction. 

[71 dB]

You're exaggerating the problems, don't believe everything you read. Petrol stations were low  for a short while, but the causes were complex, and Brexit may not have been the main one. Anyway, not one of my suppliers had a problem supplying - I have a property business and I always need tradesmen to call at my houses, but there were zero cancellations due to fuel shortages. This is in London, which is reputedly the hardest hit. The supermarket shelves seem rammed at the moment - I've just got back from one of them.

My own feeling is that the idea that there are serious problems in the Uk is a European press fiction.

My sentiments are not based on press, but people who follow Brexit/UK politics closely. People like Maximilien Robespierre and Michael Lambert.

[Irons]

My sentiments are not based on press, but people who follow Brexit/UK politics closely. People like Maximilien Robespierre and Michael Lambert.

I guess Maximilien Robespierre is a joke - on me as I looked him up. As for the other feller, I looked him up too. Now I understand where you are coming from with your views.

[MusicTurner]

I guess Maximilien Robespierre is a joke - on me as I looked him up. As for the other feller, I looked him up too. Now I understand where you are coming from with your views.

MR must in this case be a you-tube alias. There is one who has chosen that name, dealing a lot with Brexit.

[71 dB]

I guess Maximilien Robespierre is a joke - on me as I looked him up.  

It is a really funny name for sure, but that is the name of his (I don't know his real name) Youtube Channel taken from the French 18th century lawyer and statesman.

As for the other feller, I looked him up too. Now I understand where you are coming from with your views.

Well, good. 

[Irons]

It is a really funny name for sure, but that is the name of his (I don't know his real name) Youtube Channel taken from the French 18th century lawyer and statesman.

Well, good. 

Oh right. Thanks for explanation as I didn't get past the 18th C statesman.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Oh right. Thanks for explanation as I didn't get past the 18th C statesman.

Talking to us from the Great Beyond? 

PD

[Irons]

Talking to us from the Great Beyond? 

PD

Yes, I thought he may of said "Those Brits don't know their backside from their elbow". Bit disappointed some bloke on a YT channel.

[Spotted Horses]

I certainly think brexit was a dumb idea and people were led to vote for it for reasons that are generally not valid. But I tire of the haranguing that Brexit is this unimaginable catastrophe. Norway and Switzerland are not EU members, and their lack of EU membership has not banished them to the stone age. The UK will be fine, if different in subtle ways, without EU membership.  It is a tiny blip in the UK's gradual and inevitable descent from dominant global power to global irrelevancy.

[71 dB]

Norway and Switzerland are not EU members, and their lack of EU membership has not banished them to the stone age.

That's because those countries are less arrogant and are part of EU customs territory and have good trade deals. The UK could have gotten a much softer Brexit, but Boris Johnson & co. didn't want that to appeal to the xenophobes. 

[Irons]

I certainly think brexit was a dumb idea and people were led to vote for it for reasons that are generally not valid. But I tire of the haranguing that Brexit is this unimaginable catastrophe. Norway and Switzerland are not EU members, and their lack of EU membership has not banished them to the stone age. The UK will be fine, if different in subtle ways, without EU membership.  It is a tiny blip in the UK's gradual and inevitable descent from dominant global power to global irrelevancy.

If this is not the most sensible post of 90 pages I will eat a LP record and on zoom to prove it. I agree with every word, including I might add, the first and last sentences.

[Que]

I certainly think brexit was a dumb idea and people were led to vote for it for reasons that are generally not valid. But I tire of the haranguing that Brexit is this unimaginable catastrophe. Norway and Switzerland are not EU members, and their lack of EU membership has not banished them to the stone age. The UK will be fine, if different in subtle ways, without EU membership.  It is a tiny blip in the UK's gradual and inevitable descent from dominant global power to global irrelevancy.

Norway is part of the internal market aka the European Economic Area, the economic union between the EU members and a few countries that are not a member. The position of Switzerland resembles EEA membership very closely through a myriad of bilateral agreements.

Though the Brexit referendum was only about EU membership, the Tories decided that leaving the EU wasn't good enough. All close economic ties had to be cut as well, safe for a basic agreement on tariffs on goods.
The UK didn't want to become a "rule taker", and its true: Norway and Switzerland are rule takers with a few exceptions.
But you become a rule taker if you leave the decision making table (the EU), like the UK, or refuse to join due to popular sentiment, like Norway and Switzerland.

Anyway, it's not the renouncing of EU membership that is doing all the economic damage. It is because the UK left the internal market. The "tiny blip" is like boosting a previously very slow process of imperial decline with rocket fuel.

If this is not the most sensible post of 90 pages I will eat a LP record and on zoom to prove it. I agree with every word, including I might add, the first and last sentences.

Well...

[J.A.W.]

Norway is part of the internal market aka the European Economic Area, the economic union between the EU members and a few countries that are not a member. The position of Switzerland resembles EEA membership very closely through a myriad of agreements.

Though the Brexit referendum was only about EU membership, the Tories decided that leaving the EU wasn't good enough. All close economic ties had to be cut as well, safe for a basic agreement on tariffs on goods.
The UK didn't want to become a "rule taker", and its true: Norway and Switzerland are rule takers with a few exceptions.
But you become a rule taker if you leave the decision making table (the EU), like the UK, or refuse to join due to popular sentiment, like Norway and Switzerland.

Anyway, it's not the renouncing of EU membership that is doing all the economic damage. It is because the UK left the internal market. The "tiny blip" is like boosting a previously very slow process of imperial decline with rocket fuel.

Well...

The various treaties with Switzerland are finite and will expire in due course, as the Swiss government has cut short negotiations on a comprehensive new treaty.to replace the existing ones. Switzerland will then have more or less the same status as the UK.

[Scion7]

" . . . the UK's gradual and inevitable descent from dominant global power to global irrelevancy."

If this is not the most sensible post of 90 pages I will eat a LP record and on zoom to prove it. I agree with every word, including I might add, the first and last sentences.

Here's the sticky wicket: England is a strategic nuclear power.  Even with its relatively modest amount of warheads, they are capable of loosing a global catastrophe beyond the scope of our worst nightmare - so, irrelevancy will never be a factor until the world disarms - I won't be waiting at the door for that time to pop up!

[Que]

The various treaties with Switzerland are finite and will expire in due course, as the Swiss government has cut short negotiations on a comprehensive new treaty.to replace the existing ones. Switzerland will then have more or less the same status as the UK.

We don't know what is going to happen.

And I'm not aware that current treaties will cease to exist if Switzerland will continue to refuse to agree with the more comprehensive agreement, just that the EU has indicated that it is not willing to further the relationship by continuing to conclude new bilateral agreements. It's threatening therefore with a "standstill", which will gradually erode the economic relationship, not with an "Swizexit". Unless the Swizz themselves would decide to cut the close economic ties. No chance in hell, I would say...

[Que]

" . . . the UK's gradual and inevitable descent from dominant global power to global irrelevancy."
Here's the sticky wicket: England is a strategic nuclear power.  Even with its relatively modest amount of warheads, they are capable of loosing a global catastrophe beyond the scope of our worst nightmare - so, irrelevancy will never be a factor until the world disarms - I won't be waiting at the door for that time to pop up!

Pakistan has nuclear weapons as well.

[Scion7]

Pakistan has nuclear weapons as well.

Quite.  But they aren't a strategic power - they could make a mess of things locally - but they don't have Trident-D capable ballistic missile submarines prowling the ocean with dozens of warheads that are virtually unstoppable. 

[J.A.W.]

We don't know what is going to happen.

And I'm not aware that current treaties will cease to exist if Switzerland will continue to refuse to agree with the more comprehensive agreement, just that the EU has indicated that it is not willing to further the relationship by continuing to conclude new bilateral agreements. It's threatening therefore with a "standstill", which will gradually erode the economic relationship, not with an "Swizexit". Unless the Swizz themselves would decide to cut the close economic ties. No chance in hell, I would say...

I understand that the current treaties all have an end date, that the EU is not willing to extend them and that they want Switzerland to sign an all-encompassing treaty instead that will replace the existing ones.

[Madiel]

The various treaties with Switzerland are finite and will expire in due course, as the Swiss government has cut short negotiations on a comprehensive new treaty.to replace the existing ones. Switzerland will then have more or less the same status as the UK.

Nevertheless, the comment was about Switzerland's current position, not about its future one. Norway and Switzerland are not good current comparisons for the UK's position, because Norway and Switzerland both have arrangements with the EU that are close than the one the UK has gone for.

[J.A.W.]

Nevertheless, the comment was about Switzerland's current position, not about its future one. Norway and Switzerland are not good current comparisons for the UK's position, because Norway and Switzerland both have arrangements with the EU that are close than the one the UK has gone for.

That's right.