Independence for Scotland?

[Que]

1) & 2), yes, especially now that May's called the snap UK General Election that she swore she wouldn't; not sure about 3). But why would it be expected to end there? Do you envisage that an independent Scotland would remain intact rather than break into pieces? Do you imagine that England would likewise remain intact rather than move towards a break-up into various regions, one being London? Will France remain a single nation should it vote for le Pen and move to leave EU? And so on...

Well, apart from taking it ad absurdum, you're right in the sense that one (major) breakaway might lead to others...
Once the seeds of division and discord are sown, nothing good will come of it.
Nationhood is built on a shared identity and destiny. And the whole Brexit process doesn't seem in the best interest of all the constituent parts of the United  Kingdom....while the majority couldn't care less...


I guess we'll just have to wait and see how this plays out. All three options I described are seriously discussed.

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[Que]

Scottish first minister Nicola Sturgeon admits Scotland might not seek immediate membership of the EU if she won a second referendum, saying a 'phased approach' may be needed. Speaking on BBC1's Andrew Marr Show on Sunday, Sturgeon says Scotland may have to pursue membership of the European Free Trade Association (Efta)

She cracked it....

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[vandermolen]

Scottish first minister Nicola Sturgeon admits Scotland might not seek immediate membership of the EU if she won a second referendum, saying a 'phased approach' may be needed. Speaking on BBC1's Andrew Marr Show on Sunday, Sturgeon says Scotland may have to pursue membership of the European Free Trade Association (Efta)

She cracked it....

Q

I much preferred EFTA to the EU (although I'm a remainer). Did we (UK) ever actually leave EFTA?

[Que]

I much preferred EFTA to the EU (although I'm a remainer). Did we (UK) ever actually leave EFTA?

Yes, the UK left EFTA when joining the European Community.

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[vandermolen]

Yes, the UK left EFTA when joining the European Community.

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Thanks

[Que]

Thanks

You're welcome. 

There is still some academic discussion on whether leaving the EU also means that the UK is no longer party to the Treaty on the European Economic Area (EEA), which creates the  internal market between the EFTA members (minus Switzerland) and the (members of) the EU. But not more than an a academic exercise, I would say.

Back to Scotland: it seems Sturgeon is now aiming at a referendum on independence at the (possibly disastrous) end of the Brexit negotiation process,  as well as a joining EFTA after independence for a quick and soft landing for Scotland.

As said before, this will IMO convince both staunch Scottish nationalists and pro European internationalists...
Seems like the best tactic to get a majority in favour of independence.
I forsee many trips to Norway in the future to prepare for a EFTA membership  ... No doubt the EU will agree to Scotland joining the EEA as well.

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[vandermolen]

You're welcome. 

There is still some academic discussion on whether leaving the EU also means that the UK is no longer party to the Treaty on the European Economic Area (EEA), which creates the  internal market between the EFTA members (minus Switzerland) and the (members of) the EU. But not more than an a academic exercise, I would say.

Back to Scotland: it seems Sturgeon is now aiming at a referendum on independence at the (possibly disastrous) end of the Brexit negotiation process,  as well as a joining EFTA after independence for a quick and soft landing for Scotland.

As said before, this will IMO convince both staunch Scottish nationalists and pro European internationalists...
Seems like the best tactic to get a majority in favour of independence.
I forsee many trips to Norway in the future to prepare for a EFTA membership  ... No doubt the EU will agree to Scotland joining the EEA as well.

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I voted to leave the EEC in the 1973 referendum or whenever it was (first time I was old enough to vote) in those days I saw it as a betrayal of our Commonwealth connections. This time I voted Remain. I have never ever voted for either a  candidate or decision that has actually been successful! I liked EFTA because it appeared to be a trading association without the political implications of the EEC. Yes, the break up of the UK is a possibility (will there be a Scottish entry for Eurovision in the future?)

[Que]

Interesting development:

Theresa May: Tories will invest heavily in Scotland after Brexit

PM appeals to unionist, pro-Brexit and Labour voters, saying Conservatives will help Scotland 'grow and flourish'


Why would May makes such promises? Because she likes spending more money on Scotland?

I highly doubt it....

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[Ken B]

Interesting development:

Theresa May: Tories will invest heavily in Scotland after Brexit

PM appeals to unionist, pro-Brexit and Labour voters, saying Conservatives will help Scotland 'grow and flourish'


Why would May makes such promises? Because she likes spending more money on Scotland?

I highly doubt it....

Q

To win votes.

Notice the implicit premise: that there will be Scottish votes to win. That is, that Scottish independence ain't gonna happen. A safe assumption when the referendum wasn't even close.

[Que]

To win votes.

Notice the implicit premise: that there will be Scottish votes to win. That is, that Scottish independence ain't gonna happen. A safe assumption when the referendum wasn't even close.

Seems like a lot of effort for votes May does not need...at all... to win the elections..... 

An alternative explanation is that she is tryimg to dissuade a good portion of the Scottish electorate to vote for independence.
Now.... bribing voters is to oldest trick in the book and usually very effective, but it is also a sign of weakness.
IMO the strongest clue sofar that the Conservatives actually worry about the effect of Brexit on the Union with Scotland.

As for the courted Scottish electorate, I would say that like any promise by any politician anywhere: here today, gone tomorrow.... 

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[Ken B]

Seems like a lot of effort for votes May does not need...at all... to win the elections..... 

An alternative explanation is that she is tryimg to dissuade a good portion of the Scottish electorate to vote for independence.
Now.... bribing voters is to oldest trick in the book and usually very effective, but it is also a sign of weakness.
IMO the strongest clue sofar that the Conservatives actually worry about the effect of Brexit on the Union with Scotland.

As for the courted Scottish electorate, I would say that like any promise by any politician anywhere: here today, gone tomorrow.... 

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I hope you are right. I want Scottish independence, as an Anglophile. But it sounds to me like you are looking for ways to feel justified in your opinion of Brexit ("even Brexiters know it's bad!!"). There is no need to bribe the Scots to stay any more than Cameron already bribed them, but there is always an incentive to bribe voters for seats.
Did you see her lead has been cut in half recently?

[Que]

I hope you are right. I want Scottish independence, as an Anglophile.

I'm aware of the phenomenon - some Brexiteers see the Scots rather go than stay - but never quite got the logic behind it...
The less is left of the Empire, the better?

But it sounds to me like you are looking for ways to feel justified in your opinion of Brexit ("even Brexiters know it's bad!!").

From a continental perspective Brexit doesn't necessarily needs to be a bad thing: the UK was a strong force behind the expansion of the EU and a strong force against any further political and economic integration. Some of the leading factors that got the EU in the mess it is now....

From a UK perspective however, Brexit is incomprehensible, illogical....
It already had the "best deal" imaginable, better than anyone else had. And now it wants an even better deal...

There is no need to bribe the Scots to stay any more than Cameron already bribed them, but there is always an incentive to bribe voters for seats.
Did you see her lead has been cut in half recently?

Yes, I read it... 
May runs the risk of loosing the votes of left wing Brexiteers, who now know voting for Labout isn't going to derail Brexit anyway.
The real battles are going to be with the EU over Brexit, and I think, subsequently over Scotland.

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