Distortions while listening to a CD: "Fluttering" Does anyone experience that?

[SurprisedByBeauty]

Anyone know the phenomenon of playing a CD and then comes a rhythmical, fairly high-frequency sound that I can best describe as "fluttering" -- but it's not the traditional tape-flutter we know from "wow & flutter".
It's more like a bird flapping its wings. A "futt-futt-futt-futt-futt-futt" -- anywhere from subtle to very notable. Not necessarily repeatable on the same part of the CD, though usually that works.

It's not the equipment (at least not with other recordings... there might still be a particular interaction that causes it)... it almost seems like the CD isn't being read well.

(Not that I think it matters, because I've had that phenomenon with completely different systems, too, mine is a Yama CD-S2100/A-S2100 & Thiel SCS4T)

More to the point, it's this CD that I have most recently noticed it most notably:


Debussy: Preludes, Book I & II
Hiroko Sasaki
on a Pleyel 1873
http://a-fwd.to/3o58hfl

[springrite]

I have only experienced that with CDRs that I had copied, imperfection of the copy, I guess.

[SurprisedByBeauty]

I have only experienced that with CDRs that I had copied, imperfection of the copy, I guess.

Hmm... I'm suspecting the same thing. Will give it another spin today to see if the 'futt-futt-futt' stays in the same places on the same tracks. Shame, really, because it's a TERRIFIC recording!
Thanks for responding.

[71 dB]

It is craches on the disc. I actually experienced it myself yesterday when playing a badly crached used CD. It is rare, because it causes the player read good parts of the disc in a wrong way. It's not how the music is read, but where to read the next block. I believe the frequency of the fluttering sound is exactly same as the spinning speed of the disc so it is kind of like needle jumping the groove on vinyl, except we don't get stuck in time, just these short periodic "wtf moments" of the player.

Have you tried white toothpaste on the disc? Check Youtube about how it's done. I have been able to fix 75-80 % of my discs with this trick. 

[SurprisedByBeauty]

It is craches on the disc. I actually experienced it myself yesterday when playing a badly crached used CD. It is rare, because it causes the player read good parts of the disc in a wrong way. It's not how the music is read, but where to read the next block. I believe the frequency of the fluttering sound is exactly same as the spinning speed of the disc so it is kind of like needle jumping the groove on vinyl, except we don't get stuck in time, just these short periodic "wtf moments" of the player.

Have you tried white toothpaste on the disc? Check Youtube about how it's done. I have been able to fix 75-80 % of my discs with this trick. 

It certainly does sound like it is connected to the RPM of the disc. But it's not scratches (crashes?) in this case, because the CD is brand new; I'd just taken it out of the wrapper. I'll write Piano Classics and see if they've encountered a similar problem. It's in-and-out, fading and coming back... sometimes very loud, sometimes rather subtle.

[Todd]

It's a data reading issue linked to a bad pressing.  I've experienced this on dozens of discs that are physically perfect on the surface.  The Skrow Bartok on Vox was like that - on two sets.  Some Kempff Mozart concertos were like that - on two sets.  Christian Leotta's last volume of his Beethoven had that problem - on two sets.  On this last one, I contacted Atma directly, and they made the bad pressing claim and gave me high res downloads for my trouble.  A bunch of other discs have had that problem over the years.  The Sasaki disc copy I have doesn't have that problem.  Get enough discs, and it is bound to happen. 

[Parsifal]

Sounds like some sort of data error. You could try ripping the CD. A computer CD-ROM drive would have all the time in to world to try to correct read errors and depending on the software the error report might be illuminating.

[71 dB]

It certainly does sound like it is connected to the RPM of the disc. But it's not scratches (crashes?) in this case, because the CD is brand new; I'd just taken it out of the wrapper. I'll write Piano Classics and see if they've encountered a similar problem. It's in-and-out, fading and coming back... sometimes very loud, sometimes rather subtle.

New scratchless disc.? Oh, it must be bad pressing as has been mentioned.

[Daverz]

You might be able to recover the data on the disc by making a copy with dbPoweramp or Exact Audio Copy. 

[SurprisedByBeauty]

You might be able to recover the data on the disc by making a copy with dbPoweramp or Exact Audio Copy. 

Dave

It's a strange thing; some places flutter repeatedly... but by and large it seems to get better. It's also mostly toward the inside the of the disc, i.e. early tracks. I'll post the answer from the label here, if they have one.

[springrite]

It's a strange thing; some places flutter repeatedly... but by and large it seems to get better. It's also mostly toward the inside the of the disc, i.e. early tracks. I'll post the answer from the label here, if they have one.

Yes, this seems to happen mostly at the beginning or near the end of the disc--either the very inside or near the edge of the disc.

[Jo498]

The only similar thing I can think of is what happened to my "bronzed" CDs. But this was not high frequency, rather like a middle frequency "clucking" not entirely dissimilar to dirt/scratches on LPs only very regular. Right now I cannot think of a seemingly flawless disc showing the problem.

[SurprisedByBeauty]

Yes, this seems to happen mostly at the beginning or near the end of the disc--either the very inside or near the edge of the disc.

I've tracked it down to several moments, always in the same tracks: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7 (of 26) -- usually (this might be coincidence) around the 50s, 1.20, 2.20, 2.20 mark.
Different intensity from playing to playing but always at least some present.

[71 dB]

I've tracked it down to several moments, always in the same tracks: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7 (of 26) -- usually (this might be coincidence) around the 50s, 1.20, 2.20, 2.20 mark.
Different intensity from playing to playing but always at least some present.

What about the hole in the disc? if it's not smooth, the disc won't rotate centered and the laser has difficulties "staying on track". One thing to try is to put the disc in the freezer and play it cold.

[SurprisedByBeauty]

What about the hole in the disc? if it's not smooth, the disc won't rotate centered and the laser has difficulties "staying on track".

I felt the hole and it's nice and smooth and round.

One thing to try is to put the disc in the freezer and play it cold.

That has got to be a joke, right? What's the science behind that? (Apart from the obvious fact that it shouldn't be necessary.

[Jo498]

minimize thermal noise. Best cool down as close to absolute zero as possible

[mc ukrneal]

I felt the hole and it's nice and smooth and round.

That has got to be a joke, right? What's the science behind that? (Apart from the obvious fact that it shouldn't be necessary.

I have heard of this as a theory for better sounding discs (no idea about fixing messed up ones). I doubt it works for that, but if there is a scratch, would the contraction help seal it over in some way? I suppose this is possible, but I am skeptical. Perhaps you could try it and let us know!

[71 dB]

That has got to be a joke, right? What's the science behind that? (Apart from the obvious fact that it shouldn't be necessary.

The reasoning behind this "is that the technique relaxes the lattice structure of the polycarbonate substrate distorted by heat and pressure during the pressing process."

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/freeze-audio-discs,review-1408.html

[SurprisedByBeauty]

The reasoning behind this "is that the technique relaxes the lattice structure of the polycarbonate substrate distorted by heat and pressure during the pressing process."

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/freeze-audio-discs,review-1408.html

When I want to relax the lattice structure I add a bit of pumpkin seed oil to the mix, and a few tomatoes and strands of arugula and presto! Delicious.