Author Topic: Johannes Cicona (Jean de la Cignogne) Ars subtilior toward early renaissace?  (Read 203 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline deprofundis

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 531
  • Location: montreal canada
  • Currently Listening to:
    classical, skronk-jazz, blues, experimental etc
I have lot's of recordings of his best his the triple album by Paul Van Nevel, I meant there a lot when I open my library, I even have an LP of his works. Great poet, an medieval transit toward ars Subtilior, a grey zone between medieval and early renaissance of Dufay's songs, yep...

Great visionary I have also an album of Cicona, -Hommage a Johannes Cicona- by ensemble project ars nova.My LP is a TELEFUNKEN(label).

Also I have tone of Cicona Cameo, if you venture into ancient lore ,chance are you'll heard is Name.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2020, 05:40:08 PM by deprofundis »

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 14189


A pure, modest performance of Ciconia’s Con lagreme bagnandome, presented for one voice and instruments in van Nevel’s set. The  singing is accompanied by a plucked instrument, so no sustain, and hence there are no real harmonies.  I can’t see who his singer is, she has a characterful voice full of asperities, slightly husky. It’s very long, partly because of the prelude and interlude, but also because she takes the time to be expressive.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2020, 01:06:26 AM by Mandryka »
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 14189


Ciconia’s motet Venecie Mundi Splendor, sung in an incisively articulated away, with a slow pulse, which gives the motet the feeling of dignity and nobility. Straight singing. The tone of the male singers is very distinctive, almost like brass instruments. No instrument only passages.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 14189


Dufay must have been familiar with Ciconia, because when he was a young man his music was widely disseminated and he was acknowledged as important in the avant garde. This Dufay recording, which strikes me as rather beautiful in any case, and indeed valuable for the rarity of the music, seems to bring out that connection. What I mean is, Maletto gets the singers to present the music in an angular way which, to my ears, sounds like Ciconia.

Johannes de Lymburgia can sound a bit like Ciconia too I think!
« Last Edit: February 27, 2020, 02:27:54 AM by Mandryka »
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 14189
I have lot's of recordings of his best his the triple album by Paul Van Nevel, I meant there a lot when I open my library, I even have an LP of his works.


I enjoy Huelgas, despite my distaste for brass.  La Morra/Diabolus in Musica, the other big set I have heard, seems to me to have high and low points. Huelgas's high points are very high indeed. A lot is just a question of taste of course. I think the singers van Nevel chose are sometimes very inspired indeed.


Great visionary I have also an album of Cicona, -Hommage a Johannes Cicona- by ensemble project ars nova.My LP is a TELEFUNKEN(label).


Yes it is exceptional. That being said, there is one recording which for me has been a constant source of interest, though obviously when it comes to voice one man’s meat is another man’s poison. This one


« Last Edit: February 27, 2020, 05:28:48 AM by Mandryka »
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 14189
There’s an odd ball recording of a Ciconia motets, because it is so austere. No instruments, vocalise for untexted music, OVPP, all blokes and just four of them.  I’m not sure that this approach can be justified historically, but there’s something interesting in the experiment I think from a musical point of view. I have a bit of a love hate relationship with it. This one



The photo seems to sum up the feeling of the CD. They don’t look very smiley, they’re dressed for a cold climate.

Anyway as far as I can see, noone else has felt inspired to follow their experiment, apart from Paul Hillier with Theatre of Voices in  his Monastic Chant CD, just a couple of songs though.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2020, 10:37:37 PM by Mandryka »
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 14189
I have lot's of recordings of his best his the triple album by Paul Van Nevel, I meant there a lot when I open my library, I even have an LP of his works. Great poet, an medieval transit toward ars Subtilior, a grey zone between medieval and early renaissance of Dufay's songs, yep...

Great visionary I have also an album of Cicona, -Hommage a Johannes Cicona- by ensemble project ars nova.My LP is a TELEFUNKEN(label).

Also I have tone of Cicona Cameo, if you venture into ancient lore ,chance are you'll heard is Name.

Only one Ciconia song, but this has your name written all over it

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline deprofundis

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 531
  • Location: montreal canada
  • Currently Listening to:
    classical, skronk-jazz, blues, experimental etc
Merci , thank you very much for the neat info on other recording,I happen to havee la Morra recording it'S a delight.

Take care Mandryka