Georg Tintner

[mahlertitan]

i am curious, who here owns the Naxos cycle of complete Bruckner symphonies, and what do you think of it?

[Mark]

I do. But I have nothing with which to compare the performances except several versions of the Seventh, all of which sound terrific to me! I particularly like his First, Third, Fourth and 'Nullte' ('0'). The Second just doesn't grab me as a work, and I feel largely the same indifference towards the Fifth. Is that Tintner's fault? No idea ...

[Todd]

I've got it, and I find it good.  He's better in the earlier symphonies - 2 & 3 especially - than the later ones.  

[bhodges]

I've only heard two or three in the cycle, but IMHO anyone interested in Bruckner should hear Tintner in the First, which is the original version of the symphony, and quite strange, harmonically speaking - a real revelation.  The "corrections" Bruckner did later seem to have smoothed out any rough edges, almost turning it into a different piece altogether.

--Bruce

[beclemund]

I have it, and to be honest, I seldom go back to many of the symphonies in that set other than the 3rd (and at times the 7th). Tintner's Study Symphony and Nullte are the only versions I own of those and they are not often listened to either, but more than many of the other works in that cycle.

The quality of playing is good on all of them and excellent on a few, and there are some interesting versions performed that you may not have heard if you do not have a significant Bruckner collection already. If you already have another cycle, I would suggest sticking to an à la carte approach to Bruckner. Unless there is an amazing interpretation that cannot be purchased individually, I do not think I would purchase another complete cycle....

To someone not already possessing a vast array of Bruckner interpreters on disc, however, I would not hesitate to recommend this cycle in addition to Jochum's EMI/Brilliant for a low cost exploration of the composer. There are some very significant differences between those two interpretations that make them both appealing.

[not edward]

I've got a few of them. I pull out his interesting 3rd and his nicely poised 7th occasionally, the rest almost never. Additional recommendations rather than primary ones, I'd say, and it's a pity that his orchestras weren't always up to the task.

[Choo Choo]

I have this set, but for me too it's not one that I return to often.  It's interesting for the editions that he chooses (mostly early ones.)   His recording of the 1873 edition of #3 is one of the best available, and his 1887 #8 has only been bettered IMO by a performance I heard from the BBCNOW under Walter Weller.  Tintner takes time over it, allowing the music to breathe - which puts him streets ahead of e.g. Inbal and Davies who tend to rush at it.

My favourite set has long been Skrowacewski's.  Some really fine performances in there.  Just recently I was listening to #9, after a whole batch of other "all-time great" performances, and was struck by how well it stood up against them.

[PerfectWagnerite]

I had it for about 5 years and recently sold it. I pretty much find it lacking in every respect. 1 and 2 are okay, 3  is an interminable 77 minutes - which is about 25 minutes longer than what I can take of this work. 4 is probably the best one, featuring some piquant wind and bright brass sonorities. 5, 6, 7 are pretty much unlistenable IMO, especially #5, where his start-stop herky jerky antics really tick me off. A funky version of #8 pretty much renders the set useless (you get a better 8th with Dennis Russel-Davies with the Bruckner Orchestra of Linz on Arte Nova. I forget how 9 sounds now but I recall not being bowled over by it.

[Choo Choo]

Georg Tintner's cycle is marvelous in so many ways, not only because he used rarely used versions of the symphonies, but it included some of the best Bruckner symphonies ever recorded. Personally, i loved the 8th, I previously spoke about how weak Asahina's 8th was with Osaka, Tintner's 8th is exactly the opposite, powerful brass, perfect execution, great interpretation, flawless playing...

let me show you what i mean:

Asahina Bruckner's 8th with Osaka
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://xuwubao.googlepages.com/Asahina84.mp3[/mp3]

Tintner Bruckner's 8th with National Symphony of Ireland
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://xuwubao.googlepages.com/Tintner84.mp3[/mp3]

There does seem to be a slight lack of co-ordination in that Asahina - as if the various sections drift out of alignment and have to be wrenched back together, with a consequent unevenness in the timing - to match the one in the recorded balance.  Yes, I can hear what you mean.  In comparison the Tintner does come across as more clearly focussed.  However I've just played the same section from the 1994 Asahina / Osaka recording (on Canyon) and IMHO it blows both of those into the weeds.  It's just a tad more brisk - very concentrated, very focussed (and the brass is very strong) - giving the whole thing more vigour overall.  Absolutely nothing wrong with it whatsoever.  Still not one of my ultimate favourites - but worth hearing.

[Michel]

I have only his 7th symphony, which I bought on recommendation.

In general, I find it a little too distanced and emotionally uninvolved, a bit clinical. I would suspect that the same is true in the 8th and 9th... being emotional pieces and all. Interested to hear the 8th, now, though, following Nigel's comments as I know he has a good ear for Bruckner. I agree that a conductor need to take their time over it, it is why I don't much enjoy Furtwangler. I think the 8th is a faboulously hard one to control, even Karajan I think gets lost in it, despite everyone saying that is a good recording.

Having said it, on a side note, it is Karajan's 7th I turn to time and time again.

And for a cycle, well, thats obvious, as Nigel would say, Skrowaczewski!

[beclemund]

Tintner Bruckner's 8th with National Symphony of Ireland
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://xuwubao.googlepages.com/Tintner84.mp3[/mp3]

That Tintner plays a lot like Giulini's 8th with the WP. I may have to revisit both and see what else is similar.

[mp3=200,20,0,center]http://beclemund.googlepages.com/FrB84C.mp3[/mp3]

[rubio]

I have this set, but for me too it's not one that I return to often.  It's interesting for the editions that he chooses (mostly early ones.)   His recording of the 1873 edition of #3 is one of the best available, and his 1887 #8 has only been bettered IMO by a performance I heard from the BBCNOW under Walter Weller.  Tintner takes time over it, allowing the music to breathe - which puts him streets ahead of e.g. Inbal and Davies who tend to rush at it.

My favourite set has long been Skrowacewski's.  Some really fine performances in there.  Just recently I was listening to #9, after a whole batch of other "all-time great" performances, and was struck by how well it stood up against them.

Which recordings are your favourite from this set (which is rather expensive)? I have seen some cheap single CD's of symphony 7 and 8, at least.

[Choo Choo]

excellent choice, Skrowaczewski has to be one of my favourite bruckner cycles, i can listen to his 5th over and over again and never get tired of it!

I'd forgotten about the 5th.  I'm playing it right now.  Isn't it great?  Real "air baton" stuff.

[rw1883]

Like PerfectWagnerite & beclemund the Tintner does not leave an impression on me.  I've been through the set a few times and it becomes tiresome to finish.  i'm guessing that's where personal preference comes in.  I'd place many complete/partial sets and individual discs above it.

[Choo Choo]

Which recordings are your favourite from this set (which is rather expensive)? I have seen some cheap single CD's of symphony 7 and 8, at least.

I find this question quite hard to answer.

(I assume you meant the Skrowaczewski set...?)

For me the signature merit of this set is that the performances are solid and straightforward - and stylish - with a sound that's never less than glorious - but without quirkiness, overwrought emotion, or straining for effect.  This makes it pretty much the ideal set from which to learn the music: you don't have to buy into any particular aesthetic philosophy, or moral or spiritual standpoint, to appreciate it.  It's an easy recommendation.  The quality is very even.  There are no duds.

However if you already know the music and have a collection of recordings, the question then is how these recordings compare with all the (very many) others out there - and in particular, will they reveal some new aspect of the music - compared with buying Famous Recording X or Y?

Take the 8th symphony for example: of the 100+ recordings in my collection, there are very few that I consider to have absolutely no merit at all - and at least 30-40 (if not more) with a claim to greatness.  In the face of that kind of competition, how does the Saarbrücken recording stand up?  The answer is: surprisingly well ... but does it make my personal Top 5?  Top 10?  Top 20?  No it doesn't.  There's absolutely nothing wrong with it - it's a fine recording of a concert performance - and if I were ever present at a concert like that, I'd be well pleased - but as a recording, considered against the intense competition, it's not that distinctive or revelatory to merit one of the top spots.

Likewise the 7th.  A solid, steady performance - with dynamics that are absolutely spot-on all the way through - and a pleasure to listen to.  But do you have Blomstedt / Dresden?  Dohnanyi / Cleveland?  Schuricht / Hamburg?  If not, these might extend your listening pleasure in a way that the (orthodox) Skrowaczewski might not.

Outright favourites from the Saarbrücken set are 0 - where the competition is not great - however this remains my top pick despite the (valid) claims of Marriner / Stuttgart.  And 6 - though not my #1 pick, there are very few that are better than this.  And 9, which in a crowded marketplace stuffed with outstanding competition still manages to be a first-rate performance.  1, 2, 3 are all good.  4 I find inferior to Skrowaczewski's own recording with the Hallé, which provides a masterclass in how to turn in a cracking performance of this symphony even with an orchestra that has no Bruckner credentials to speak of.   Few recordings lay the structure of the symphony as bare as this.  5 is a great listen - again, not particularly revelatory - but hugely enjoyable.

[bricon]

The glamorous life of a musician on the road!

Here's an old photo showing Georg Tintner (with his hands on the keyboard) with some of the production crew of Madama Butterfly moving a piano into a venue, from the Australian Elizabethan Opera's 1965 country tour.

[jochanaan]

I've got #8 and #0.  They're not that bad, and it's really great to hear the Eighth's first version--as far as I know, nobody else has issued a recording of it, and it has some wonderful features that get lost in the later version.  And Tintner's straight-ahead version works pretty well.

I think part of what makes these recordings less-than-satisfactory to many is the orchestral sound and the recording.  Both are competent enough--I can tell that the National Symphony Orchestra of Ireland has some great players!--but they don't have quite the depth and power of, say, Celibidache's cycle with the Munich Phil on EMI.

[PerfectWagnerite]

I've got #8 and #0.  They're not that bad, and it's really great to hear the Eighth's first version--as far as I know, nobody else has issued a recording of it, and it has some wonderful features that get lost in the later version.  And Tintner's straight-ahead version works pretty well.

I think the 1887 version of #8 is also used here:



Althought now that I've sold the Tintner I have no basis for comparison.

[Choo Choo]

I think the 1887 version of #8 is also used here:

Yes it is.  Inbal also recorded it with the RSO Frankfurt.  Some years ago I did a comparison of these 3 plus the Weller (recorded off-air) and IIRC my order of preference was: Weller > Tintner > Davies > Inbal. 

[Mark]

Listened again to Tintner's Seventh. Feels like he makes too much of a meal of it - the third mvt in particular lacking the necessary 'gallop' that I've enjoyed in other performances.