A LEGAL recording to share with everyone: Boulez's Bruckner 9th with WP

[mahlertitan]

I don't think you can get this on a CD, i don't think it's even been issued, LIVE recording, 320 kbps/mp3.

btw, it would be great if someone can tell me more about this recording, or find more information on it.

1. Feierlich, Misterioso
http://www.mediafire.com/?71sb9wjwdlx

2. Scherzo. Bewegt, lebhaft-Trio, Schnell
http://www.mediafire.com/?fnttqce1cw2

3. Adagio. Langsam, feierlich
http://www.mediafire.com/?79mnmfm51oy

[PSmith08]

This is probably the sort of thing that someone more up-to-date with Boulez' engagements in Europe can tell you. I know that there seem to be a couple of 9ths floating around (one, with a different timing, on Andante's pay-to-play website) dating from 2001.

It's a very nice performance, though. Boulez, between this and the DGG 8th, has shown himself to be a very competent Bruckner conductor. Boulez' timings, a fun fact, are roughly identical (being marginally slower in the first movement and marginally faster in the third) with Herbert von Karajan's 8 May 1978 performance with the same orchestra (currently preserved on Andante). It's a shame Boulez has put so little Bruckner to disc, he's surprisingly sensitive to Bruckner's musical idiom.

[Drasko]

Thanks for sharing. Would you have any info on performance (when & where)?

[not edward]

Thanks for this: I've been looking for this recording for a while as I very much enjoy Boulez's WP 8th (on DG) and 7th (floating around the net).

I'll be downloading it now and hoping to get a chance to listen to it later today.

[Que]

A LEGAL recording to share with everyone: Boulez's Bruckner 9th with WP

I don't think you can get this on a CD, i don't think it's even been issued, LIVE recording, 320 kbps/mp3.

Please allow me just to point out some legal issues:

The legality of the recording depends on whether the performers gave permission for it - I assume they did.

If is legal for you to distribute the recording over the internet (=publishing) is quite another matter. It depends on if the recording is covered by any copyrights which are being honoured - for which it being currently available on CD or not, or it being ever issued is totally irrelevant...

Q

[sidoze]

Thanks for sharing. Would you have any info on performance (when & where)?

Salzburg festival, 2001.

[beclemund]

It seems it was also recorded in Linz in 2001 according to Andante's site

http://www.andante.com/article/piece.cfm?iConcPieceID=73

You can access the piece as part of their premium content membership.

It still doesn't address the legal argument which as Que pointed out, is irrelevant to the appearance of the performance on disc.

[Maciek]

Actually, I believe this is similar to oop books: you are allowed to photocopy them in their entirety for personal use. Most libraries, of course, ignore that fact and won't allow you to do that.

[beclemund]

Actually, I believe this is similar to oop books: you are allowed to photocopy them in their entirety for personal use. Most libraries, of course, ignore that fact and won't allow you to do that.

Well, I do not want to turn this into another big copyright debate, but I just want to mention that OOP does not always correlate with public domain. There is a reason that libraries frown on this (and generally post copyright policy in and around photocopiers and personal computers) as the copyright may still be owned by another party and allowing users to make full copies of their collection violates the lending aspect of the institution which does not infringe on the owner's copyright. Only the copyright owner can give permission for duplicating a work--for personal use or otherwise.

[Que]

Actually, I believe this is similar to oop books: you are allowed to photocopy them in their entirety for personal use. Most libraries, of course, ignore that fact and won't allow you to do that.

You overlook the fact that making a copy for personal use of a work in your private possesion or in a public library, is quite different from making something publicly available (=publishing).

Q

[mahlertitan]

Please allow me just to point out some legal issues:

The legality of the recording depends on whether the performers gave permission for it - I assume they did.

If is legal for you to distribute the recording over the internet (=publishing) is quite another matter. It depends on if the recording is covered by any copyrights which are being honoured - for which it being currently available on CD or not, or it being ever issued is totally irrelevant...

Q

mm, well, Mr. Que, do you think i should keep the thread, because if you think i am violating coypright policies, i will take this thread down immediately!

[Maciek]

Well, as there's no way I can now dig up the lengthy article on this subject that all my knowledge comes from, I suppose remaining silent is best. But I do want to emphasize that I did mean out of print and not public domain, and I'm pretty certain the author of the article (a copyright lawyer) explicitly said that if you are unable to secure a copy of a text that you need for research - it is perfectly legal to make a photocopy of it, no matter how long it is. Most libraries will not allow you to do that however - because they are not aware of this catch. I'm talking about EU law, BTW. Of course, an oop recording is something that has been released, while we're talking about a recording that never has been. And yes, Que, I know - but I did say "similar" not "identical".

And anyway: Thanks, MT.

[beclemund]

mm, well, Mr. Que, do you think i should keep the thread, because if you think i am violating coypright policies, i will take this thread down immediately!

I would say keep it. Maybe if the copyright holder sees it floating around on the Intertubes, they may decide to release it on SACD.

[Que]

Well, as there's no way I can now dig up the lengthy article on this subject that all my knowledge comes from, I suppose remaining silent is best. But I do want to emphasize that I did mean out of print and not public domain, and I'm pretty certain the author of the article (a copyright lawyer) explicitly said that if you are unable to secure a copy of a text that you need for research - it is perfectly legal to make a photocopy of it, no matter how long it is. Most libraries will not allow you to do that however - because they are not aware of this catch. I'm talking about EU law, BTW. Of course, an oop recording is something that has been released, while we're talking about a recording that never has been. And yes, Que, I know - but I did say "similar" not "identical".

And anyway: Thanks, MT.

OK, last word on this from me too!
You are referring to a special (and conditional) derogation for making copies of OOP publications for educational/scientific purposes. I don't think you would be allowed to photocopy an entire OOP (but in-copyright) novel just to read for your personal entertainment!

mm, well, Mr. Que, do you think i should keep the thread, because if you think i am violating copyright policies, i will take this thread down immediately!

I have assumed no such thing.
And I really don't mind - I just got triggered by the "LEGAL" advertisement and the assumptions you yourself made about legality issues.

Q

[mahlertitan]

I haven't assumed no such thing.
And I really don't mind - I just got triggered by the "LEGAL" advertisement and the assumptions you yourself made about legality issues.

Q

it's okay then? okay, if Que thinks it's okay, i think i'll leave this thread open for all to enjoy.

thank you! Que

[Que]

it's okay then? okay, if Que thinks it's okay, i think i'll leave this thread open for all to enjoy.

thank you! Que

   

[JoshLilly]

There's a surprising amount of legal - yes, truly legal - recordings floating around out there in digital format. This seems especially true of some live radio broadcasts in multiple European countries. They actually state up front that they don't care if it's recorded and spread around, as long as nobody sells it. Some performances are, of course, expressly forbidden from being recorded. I'm sure this would especially be true in the case of a live performance intending to be issued as a professional recording later. There are actually groups dedicated toward sharing fully legal complete operas on the Internet, the requirement being that each one be fully confirmed to be legal.

Also, some older LP recordings are fully legal now to put into digital format and spread around. This can get more dicey, though, since there are differing date limits in different countries on such things, renewed copyrights, differences if the label is in one country but the LP was issued in another, and so on.

There are a lot of old - like, 1940s or earlier - LP issues where the company, if it still exists, has expressly released them from copyright and given their go-ahead to let people copy and share all they want.

[not edward]

I got around to listening to this now: it's is a very interesting and distinctive performance. I enjoyed it a lot.

[beclemund]

Somewhat of a tangent to the subject at hand....

If you are like me and you use iTunes for your music and enjoy the cover flow feature, I have mocked up a cover for this recording that I thought I would share. The photograph (used without permission) appears to come from a 2003 Salzburg appearance of Boulez with the WP. And if we agree that it is a Salzburger Festpiele performance and not a Brucknerhaus, Linz (very similar timings, but not identical) performance from the same year, the information on it should be roughly accurate.

Anyhow, the mock up is attached as a GIF

Not the best you will see, but it keeps you from staring at a ...



... though some may prefer the blank to my handiwork.

[mahlertitan]

Somewhat of a tangent to the subject at hand....

If you are like me and you use iTunes for your music and enjoy the cover flow feature, I have mocked up a cover for this recording that I thought I would share. The photograph (used without permission) appears to come from a 2003 Salzburg appearance of Boulez with the WP. And if we agree that it is a Salzburger Festpiele performance and not a Brucknerhaus, Linz (very similar timings, but not identical) performance from the same year, the information on it should be roughly accurate.

Anyhow, the mock up is attached as a GIF

Not the best you will see, but it keeps you from staring at a ...



... though some may prefer the blank to my handiwork.

great thinking there! beclemund! Yeah, i was also somewhat worried about the cover issue, so used a photo of Pierre Boulez....