The ending of Sibelius' 5th symphony

[sul G]

The page in question, for those who haven't seen it:

[alkan]

Thanks Sul !

[sul G]

The harmony is very simple and very empty -

Ib  

V (root and third only)

V9 (root, seventh and ninth only)

V (root and third only)

V (root only)

I (root only)

In other words, things thin out to the simplest, starkest possible conclusion. And it also seems to me that the harmony here is designed to be the strongest possible tying up of the marvellously-controlled dissonant counterpoint in the pages before. Surrounding these chords with all this space and air is part of this tying-up, I think - once the dissonant lines finally find resolution there's nothing left to say and no need for exultant fanfares or perorations. The energy of the previous pages burns itself so efficiently and completely that these thunderclap chords and the irregular spaces around them seem to me to be the only possible conculsion. Sorry, I can't say more than that.

[alkan]

Sul,

Your last para is maybe the key that finally unlocks the door for me.

I need to think and listen a bit more .....

Many thanks .....

[sul G]

You're very welcome. 

[jochanaan]

Thanks David.      My basic assumption is that people (including composers), do things for a reason.     The fact that Sibelius did struggle with the ending confirms that he had a definite objective.     I am curious to try to find out what was going through Sibelius' mind...

Anybody who does creative work--music, poetry, stories, visual arts--sooner or later finds her/his subjects doing things that startle him/her.  I've got a notebook full of stories and poetry and a novel waiting for a publisher, so I know the phenomenon well.  Maybe it comes from thinking on the right side of our brains...

Gustav Mahler said it best:  "We do not compose; we are composed."

[jochanaan]

Re Karajan and Sibelius: On my copy of Finlandia (Angel LP, perhaps from the Seventies but I don't know for sure), he cuts out two measures from the Allegro's beginning, two of the four where the cellos, basses and timpani hold a low C; so the Fifth is not the only place HvK reduced the "silences" in Sibelius.  You expect such things from Stokowski, but not from someone with Karajan's reputation for musical understanding...