Why (or how) should I listen to Bruckner?

[DavidW]

How should you listen to Bruckner? LOUD!

[bhodges]

Regarding "weirdness" in Bruckner's music, I've never really thought of it that way.  Even when I didn't "get" his music, I found it boring, not weird.  In my relatively inexperienced opinion, I think that his music builds upon itself in layers.  It's kind of like standing at the edge of the ocean and watching the waves crash ashore.  You cannot see all of the waves still to come, and you cannot see the waves that have come before and gone back out as undercurrent.  But the entire thing builds upon itself to create the greatness of the ocean crashing ashore.

I like that metaphor here!  And a nice alternative to the often-used "scaling mountain peaks" that some feel when they listen to Bruckner.

PS to DavidW: I hope you don't have any neighbors. 

--Bruce

[BachQ]

[DavidW]

I like that metaphor here!  And a nice alternative to the often-used "scaling mountain peaks" that some feel when they listen to Bruckner.

PS to DavidW: I hope you don't have any neighbors. 

--Bruce

My apartment is so insulated Bruce that I can blast my stereo and my neighbors don't hear.  I checked with them, and discovered that they were blasting their stereo too and I had no idea from my apartment!   Ah finally a place where I can have my music and blast it too.

[bhodges]

My apartment is so insulated Bruce that I can blast my stereo and my neighbors don't hear.  I checked with them, and discovered that they were blasting their stereo too and I had no idea from my apartment!   Ah finally a place where I can have my music and blast it too.

You are one lucky dog.  I'll be right over, with a copy of this:



Oops, sorry, it's a Bruckner thread, so I'll bring this instead:





--Bruce

[DavidW]

Yeah both of those would be hella cool to blast Bruce!

[Keemun]

I like that metaphor here!  And a nice alternative to the often-used "scaling mountain peaks" that some feel when they listen to Bruckner.

Thanks.   

[Bonehelm]

Here are some legal live/broadcast recordings of Bruckner's later symphonies for you to try:

Anton Bruckner - Symphony No. 7
Pierre Boulez, conductor
Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra
Live: June 5, 2005
128 kbps/wma

http://www.mediafire.com/?cb12f8yy2y5

Anton Bruckner - Symphony No. 7
Sergiu Celibidache, conductor
Munich Philharmonic Orchestra
Radio Broadcast: January 1, 1992
192 kbps/mp3

(Celibidache conducts Bruckner slowly.)

http://www.mediafire.com/?3vzymnwmncb
http://www.mediafire.com/?bgg1yjq752o

Anton Bruckner - Symphony No. 8
Eugene Jochum, conductor
Bamberg Symphony Orchestra
Live: Tokyo, September 1982
320 kbps/mp3

http://www.mediafire.com/?9nvyzneixes
http://www.mediafire.com/?cmjedvzmdbf
http://www.mediafire.com/?2vmvbo79lwy
http://www.mediafire.com/?1s1hmnzacy9

Anton Bruckner - Symphony No. 9
Pierre Boulez, conductor
Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra
Live: 2001
320 kbps/mp3

http://www.mediafire.com/?71sb9wjwdlx
http://www.mediafire.com/?fnttqce1cw2
http://www.mediafire.com/?79mnmfm51oy

Well done Keemun, but could I please get the finale of the Boulez 9th also? Thanks a lot.

[Larry Rinkel]

Well done Keemun, but could I please get the finale of the Boulez 9th also? Thanks a lot.

You do know the 9th consists of only three completed movements, I trust?

[BachQ]

You do know the 9th consists of only three completed movements, I trust?

[Bonehelm]

You do know the 9th consists of only three completed movements, I trust?

No it doesn't. Some recordings have the finale.

[Lilas Pastia]

No it doesn't. Some recordings have the finale.

Some recordings include an attempt to complete the finale. Bruckner died before he could finish it, leaving a mass of sketches. These completions vary enormously one from another, and none (to my ears) sounds convincing, or even really brucknerian. 99% of concert performances are of the first three movements only. It's only on record that you will hear it, and after you're done you don't really want to replay it anytime soon (if ever).

[Bonehelm]

Some recordings include an attempt to complete the finale. Bruckner died before he could finish it, leaving a mass of sketches. These completions vary enormously one from another, and none (to my ears) sounds convincing, or even really brucknerian. 99% of concert performances are of the first three movements only. It's only on record that you will hear it, and after you're done you don't really want to replay it anytime soon (if ever).

Fair enough. Thanks for letting me know.

[greg]

Here are some legal live/broadcast recordings of Bruckner's later symphonies for you to try:

Anton Bruckner - Symphony No. 7
Pierre Boulez, conductor
Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra
Live: June 5, 2005
128 kbps/wma

http://www.mediafire.com/?cb12f8yy2y5

Anton Bruckner - Symphony No. 7
Sergiu Celibidache, conductor
Munich Philharmonic Orchestra
Radio Broadcast: January 1, 1992
192 kbps/mp3

(Celibidache conducts Bruckner slowly.)

http://www.mediafire.com/?3vzymnwmncb
http://www.mediafire.com/?bgg1yjq752o

Anton Bruckner - Symphony No. 8
Eugene Jochum, conductor
Bamberg Symphony Orchestra
Live: Tokyo, September 1982
320 kbps/mp3

http://www.mediafire.com/?9nvyzneixes
http://www.mediafire.com/?cmjedvzmdbf
http://www.mediafire.com/?2vmvbo79lwy
http://www.mediafire.com/?1s1hmnzacy9

Anton Bruckner - Symphony No. 9
Pierre Boulez, conductor
Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra
Live: 2001
320 kbps/mp3

http://www.mediafire.com/?71sb9wjwdlx
http://www.mediafire.com/?fnttqce1cw2
http://www.mediafire.com/?79mnmfm51oy

wow, thanks for the uploads!
i haven't heard the 8th yet, so that'll be something to look forward to 

[greg]

Some of Bruckner does sound "like something an amateur would do," in the sense that it is sometimes crafted from very simple components, but he often gets very complex results from those ingredients.  And PS, I wouldn't listen to anything by him in MIDI, since it wouldn't communicate his extraordinary textures at all.  You're right, it probably sounds very simple and "flat" that way.  Get a recording!

Lately I also hear Bruckner as some kind of spiritual forefather to some of today's minimalist composers.  Some people continually seem to link Bruckner and Mahler together but they could not be more different, and unfortunately some approach Bruckner with expectations of Mahlerian angst, mood changes and orchestration.  (Please note, I'm not saying that you do.)  Bruckner has his own orchestration gifts, some of which are related to his experience with organ music, e.g., his huge "blocks" of sound.

Anyway, the most important thing is: find a good recording of the 9th and crank it up, LOUD.   

--Bruce

almost missed this post, glad someone commented.
that's what i was thinking too, in a way his style is more minimalist for a Romantic composer (though i don't mean to say that it's simple)
now that those links for the 9th are up, i'll get to that sometime 

[jochanaan]

almost missed this post, glad someone commented.
that's what i was thinking too, in a way his style is more minimalist for a Romantic composer (though i don't mean to say that it's simple)

One of the things that fascinates me about Bruckner is just how much he looks back to the Medieval and Renaissance composers.  You see it most in the vocal works, but even in the symphonies, especially the Fifth, there are many moments that sound like a bit of Palestrina's polyphony.  And some pieces, like the E minor Mass, are so timeless you really can't place them in history unless you know who wrote them; they could have been written in the 14th or 21st century as easily as the 19th. I think Pärt must have loved Bruckner.

Bruckner's contemporaries did accuse him of amateurishness.  But today many of us see that this very "amateurishness" is really harmonic boldness.  For example, not even Wagner among his contemporaries was so apt at the kind of sharp harmonic turn that characterizes so much of Bruckner's music--a sort of screaming turn that sends the music in a new direction.  And I know of no other 19th-century composer who lets dissonance pile on dissonance quite the way Bruckner does in the awesome climax of the Ninth Symphony's Adagio.

[bhodges]

One of the things that fascinates me about Bruckner is just how much he looks back to the Medieval and Renaissance composers.  You see it most in the vocal works, but even in the symphonies, especially the Fifth, there are many moments that sound like a bit of Palestrina's polyphony.  And some pieces, like the E minor Mass, are so timeless you really can't place them in history unless you know who wrote them; they could have been written in the 14th or 21st century as easily as the 19th. I think Pärt must have loved Bruckner.

Bruckner's contemporaries did accuse him of amateurishness.  But today many of us see that this very "amateurishness" is really harmonic boldness.  For example, not even Wagner among his contemporaries was so apt at the kind of sharp harmonic turn that characterizes so much of Bruckner's music--a sort of screaming turn that sends the music in a new direction.  And I know of no other 19th-century composer who lets dissonance pile on dissonance quite the way Bruckner does in the awesome climax of the Ninth Symphony's Adagio.

Great post.  The comment about the harmonic turns, in particular, is dead on.

--Bruce

[jochanaan]

Thanks, Bruce!

[bhodges]

Further (and I just looked to see if I'd already mentioned it in this thread, since I know I've mentioned it elsewhere), I think everyone should try to hear the First Symphony in its first version (e.g., Tintner's recording) just to experience the "original, unadulterated, unprodded" Bruckner.  Harmonically it is positively weird in places, and leads you to mull over how his later work might have evolved had he continued without everyone suggesting edits. 

Of course, if allowed to proceed unimpeded, and then his chosen course hadn't resulted in the Eighth and Ninth symphonies...and I certainly wouldn't want to be without those...

--Bruce

[BachQ]

Of course, if allowed to proceed unimpeded, and then his chosen course hadn't resulted in the Eighth and Ninth symphonies...and I certainly wouldn't want to be without those...

Or ....... the unadulterated, unedited Bruckner, if allowed to proceed untethered & unimpeded, may have developed masterpieces even greater than the 8th and 9th as we know them ......... and this shackle-free Bruckner may have actually finished the 9th's finale .........