how to pronounce...

[M forever]

it should be silent but even the french pronounce it mistakely.

Isn't that because both names come from a region (forgot which one, but I read something about that a long time ago) in which people traditionally pronounced the -z at the end of names? I am trying hard to remember exactly what it was I read, but it was something like that. In any language, personal names don't necessarily follow correct contemporary spelling rules.

So do you guys actually say 'dEn'? I, and most of my fellow norwegians, pronounce it the way it's written, with no real vowel between d and n, more of a nasal sound, I guess.. Is that wrong?

Not really "dEn", but it is really hard to pronounce "dn" completely without some weak vowel showing up between them (like a very weak, e,i, or ü). So, it sometimes sounds like "Hayden" or "Haydin", but never really stressed like "Hay-dEn".

[Larry Rinkel]

Isn't that because both names come from a region (forgot which one, but I read something about that a long time ago) in which people traditionally pronounced the -z at the end of names? I am trying hard to remember exactly what it was I read, but it was something like that. In any language, personal names don't necessarily follow correct contemporary spelling rules.

Right. Scroll down to the map:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Departments_of_France

Boulez was born in the Loire département (#42), and Berlioz in the adjacent Isère (#38). Anyhow, I've seen Boulez interviewed numerous times (but never Berlioz), and the Z is always pronounced when he is addressed or introduced.

[M forever]

That's like the name of the Italian fashion designer family Benetton which I always thought doesn't look "really Italian" because the e is missing at the end. The augmentative -one, just like the diminutive -ino (or the plural forms of both) are often found in Italian family names (e.g. "Toscanini", "the little Tuscans"). I thought "Benetton" is a modern varied form of "Benettone", maybe to make it look "more English", "more international". But no. I found out that the e-less ending -on is very common in the region of Veneto (NE Italy) where that family is from, in the spoken language as in written place and family names.

[Mark]

How might one pronounce 'Spohr'?

[M forever]

"Shpohr" with the soft sh at the beginning and a long o (just o, as German doesn't have as many diphtongs as English where o is often pronunced as o-a or o-u). A little like "before". The r at the end is often not really pronounced, definitely not rolled, it sounds like a very short u or a sound, it kind of sounds like "shpoha".

[Erin]

This isn't really a "name that tune" thread, but I thought it was similar enough to warrant going into this forum.  About the opera Genoveva by Robert Schumann -- How do you pronounce "Genoveva?"

[Renfield]

I'd assume it's "Ge-no-VEE-va", in English: capital letters denote emphasis, with "ge" as in "gerrymandering", or "geranium"!

[RebLem]

I remember seeing Pierre Boulez on the old Dick Cavett Show once, and Cavett asked him how his surname was pronounced.  He said boo LEZ, with the boo just as in boo trying to scare some one, and the emphasis on the LEZ, pronounced as in the first syllable of lesbian.

[pjme]

I'd assume it's "Ge-no-VEE-va", in English: capital letters denote emphasis, with "ge" as in "gerrymandering", or "geranium"!

in German ( and Dutch/Flemish) it is pronounced : geh - noh - veh - va - with the G as in "Get"

Peter

[12tone.]

How do you pronounce:

-'Wiener', as in 'Wiener Philharmoniker'?

-'Chailly', as in the conductor?


As a side note, I think I heard on the radio Chailly pronounced 'Shy-Ee'.  Say 'Shy', then say the letter 'E' with no hard attack for the beginnging of 'E', but very soft.  Just run the two together.  Is that correct?

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Wiener = WEE-ner (the 'w' doesn't contain an 'oo' sound; it's a 'thicker' v)

Chailly = shy-YEE

[longears]

Wiener = WEE-ner (the 'w' doesn't contain an 'oo' sound; it's a 'thicker' v)

VEEner (but a soft, not hard, "r")

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

VEEner (but a soft, not hard, "r")

There is a slight 'oo' in the w - and the 'Wie' in Wiener doesn't sound the same as 'we' - it's like an unvoiced v...

[pjme]

It's not entirely clear to me either... But it is OK to pronounce the  W more as a V ...

But all Germans and Austrians will understand you when you just say WEE - ner Philharmoniker (- Cafe - Kuchen und Gebäck -Tafelspitz - Buchhandlung ...)

[M forever]

Why "a thicker v"? German w is basically the same as English v and it is always voiced. So "Wien" just sounds like "veen". Interestingly though, in the local Viennese dialect, the city's name is pronounced in a quite different way which is extremely hard to transcribe. It is not just the sounds, but the way it is said, very long drawn out (and you also have to make a really bored face when you say it because Viennese people always look extremely bored when they speak), and it sounds somehow like "vee-AHn" with ah as in father but more nasal. So the English name "Vienna" actually comes quite close to the local dialect.

[longears]

There is a slight 'oo' in the w - and the 'Wie' in Wiener doesn't sound the same as 'we' - it's like an unvoiced v...

Oh!  Maybe that's how you pronounce it in Delft...?

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Oh!  Maybe that's how you pronounce it in Delft...?

The Dutch w and the German w are pronounced in the same way...

[M forever]

Really? Nothing in Dutch and German is really pronounced quite the same way. Dutch sounds a lot like German but when you have a serious throat disease or some cheese stuck in your throat and nose (just messing with you, Jezetha  ). Seriously though, in German when you say "Wien", there is no oo there. And the w *is* voiced.

[longears]

The Dutch w and the German w are pronounced in the same way...

Ah...that explains part of it.  12tone is Canadian, so to explain to him you would point out that the German "w" is pronounced like an English "v."  I still don't get the "oo," however. 

"Dutch sounds like German spoken with a serious throat disease accompanied by some cheese stuck in your throat."  LOL!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

"Dutch sounds like German spoken with a serious throat disease accompanied by some cheese stuck in your throat."

Apt. 

A Dutch writer once said - A Dutchman is simply a German who drinks milk.

As far as that 'oo' is concerned - isn't there in the w-sound, because of the roundedness of the lips, a slight 'oo'?