Author Topic: William Byrd's Perch  (Read 12780 times)

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Offline DaveF

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Re: William Byrd's Perch
« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2015, 03:11:53 PM »
anyone knows when the box set is due? :D

That's a fair question; the Cardinall's Fayrfax and Ludford boxes appeared fairly quickly after the completions of the series (the former, to the despair of completists, including a newly-authenticated piece not on the original discs), but no sign of any Byrd box 5 years on.  I guess that the fact of the series being split between two labels (ASV and Hyperion) might cause problems.  Or perhaps sales are just holding up well enough to make it worth keeping it on individual discs.
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Offline Que

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Re: William Byrd's Perch
« Reply #41 on: November 28, 2015, 01:49:42 AM »
I guess that the fact of the series being split between two labels (ASV and Hyperion) might cause problems.

That must be it, usually a BIG stumbling block....I didn't realize... ::)
But they better figure something out toghether, because NO way that I am going to collect a 14 disc completetely finished series at full price in this day and age! ???  :D

Q

Offline Mandryka

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Re: William Byrd's Perch
« Reply #42 on: November 28, 2015, 08:00:18 AM »
Is the complete Byrd actually finished? I can't find eructavit cor meum (a gradual) for example (but I could have easily overlooked it.)

Gavin Turner's disc arrived today, DaveF recommended it. That's why I started looking foreructavit for meum. The Turner recording sounds interesting.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2015, 08:34:41 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline DaveF

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Re: William Byrd's Perch
« Reply #43 on: November 28, 2015, 02:28:51 PM »
Is the complete Byrd actually finished? I can't find eructavit cor meum

Eructavit is one of those transferrable units that turns up in a number of different places - it's the verse of the introits of Mass for:

The Annunciation/Lady Mass during Christmas (Vultum tuum deprecabuntur)
The Assumption of the BVM (Gaudeamus omnes in Domino)
The Nativity of the BVM/Lady Mass during Paschal Time (Salve sancta parens)

so you can hear it a total of (I think) 4 times on the Cardinall's discs - on nos. 8, 10 and twice on 12.  It doesn't get a track to itself because it isn't a stand-alone piece; the Gavin Turner recording gives it one so that you can programme it into the various required combinations.

So yes, the Cardinall's edition is exhaustively complete, in that the music for all the feasts is presented in full, even when it means duplicating pieces.  (Even they don't get it quite right, since they perform Salve sancta parens on Disc 12 with Alleluias which, as part of Mass for the Nativity of the BVM, it shouldn't have; you'd think that Our Lady would deserve a quick Alleluia on her birthday, but nope.)

Of course, the "complete" edition only includes the Latin sacred music.  It's sad to read the booklet notes to volume 1, written when the plan was still to make it a true "Opera omnia".  I think, apart from time and money (it took nearly 15 years to produce the 13 volumes), Andrew Carwood came to feel that the Cardinall's were not the best group to do the English music, especially the songbooks.  Sadly, no-one else seems interested in tackling it in any sort of comprehensive way either.

DF
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: William Byrd's Perch
« Reply #44 on: November 28, 2015, 11:57:54 PM »
Oh my goodness! I can see that keeping track of Byrd's music is a complicated business!

I've been listening to Vol 7 of Cardinall's Musick, which seems a great success, heartfelt and melancholy motets from Cantiones Sacrae and energetic Gradualia for a contrast. I think that this and vol 10 would be great places to start for anyone thinking of dipping in to the set.



The music is very good indeed.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 12:23:21 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline DaveF

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Re: William Byrd's Perch
« Reply #45 on: November 30, 2015, 05:22:08 AM »
NO way that I am going to collect a 14 disc completetely finished series at full price in this day and age! ???  :D

Most of them can be got fairly cheaply from Amazon MP or eBay - I can see volume 1 on am.uk at the moment for £2.49, for example.  Anyway, it took me 15 full-price years to collect the lot - you gotta suffer for great art (he said, moving aside piles of yet-to-be-listened-to bargain boxes on desk so as to see what he's typed...)

I've been listening to Vol 7 of Cardinall's Musick, which seems a great success, heartfelt and melancholy motets from Cantiones Sacrae and energetic Gradualia for a contrast. I think that this and vol 10 would be great places to start for anyone thinking of dipping in to the set.



The music is very good indeed.

Yes, agree totally, especially about vol.7.  This is going to sound pretentious, but I'll say it anyway: one of the Matthews brothers (David or Colin, I forget which) remarked once that he was afraid to listen to Mahler 6 because it might give him a heart attack, and Tristitia et anxietas falls almost into that category for me.  Oddly enough, volume 6 seems to spend the most time on my turntable, or whatever the virtual equivalent is, even though over half of it is Passion plainchant (only chance in the set actually to hear Andrew Carwood sing), because it also includes the Easter Mass and the incomparable Plorans plorabit.
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: William Byrd's Perch
« Reply #46 on: December 06, 2015, 08:16:02 AM »
.

When I said that I had all CM's Byrd, I was forgetting that I didn't have vol 9, which is rare for some mysterious reason. Anyway the good news is that it's just been uploaded on symphonyshare so I have it now, and jolly good it is too - very cheerful! Mostly Gradualia but also a nice performance of a Magnificat and Ave Verum Corpus.

Who else besides Byrd composed polyphonic music for the Graduals? On all the mass performances I can think of they're in plainsong.

I'm toying with the idea of getting Kerry McCarthy's book on the gradualia. Does anyone think that would be a mistake?
« Last Edit: December 06, 2015, 08:20:44 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline DaveF

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Re: William Byrd's Perch
« Reply #47 on: December 06, 2015, 01:25:02 PM »
vol 9, which is rare for some mysterious reason.
So it is - no sign on any of the amazons.

Who else besides Byrd composed polyphonic music for the Graduals?
Well, Palestrina, of course, and no doubt Guerrero, whom I've heard described as the most prolific composer of all time.

I'm toying with the idea of getting Kerry McCarthy's book on the gradualia. Does anyone think that would be a mistake?
No, not unless you were going for the $566 copy on amazon.  She's immensely illuminating, frighteningly intelligent, takes nothing for granted and writes like an angel.  If you're thinking of this one, does that mean you already have her "Byrd" volume in the Master Musicians series? - similarly recommendable.
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Offline DaveF

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Re: William Byrd's Perch
« Reply #48 on: September 24, 2016, 05:32:40 AM »
Having a splurge on consort songs at the moment, the area of Byrdie's output that I know least well (not helped by their rather patchy coverage on disc).  Bought in the last couple of days:





The second of these is, I have to say, really terrible, but includes (afaik) the only recordings of a couple of items.  But the first makes up for everything - one of Dame Emma's own favourite recordings, silly prices for the physical disc, but reasonable as a Qobuz download.
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Offline SonicMan46

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Re: William Byrd's Perch
« Reply #49 on: September 06, 2021, 06:35:48 AM »
After nearly 5 years, TTT!  :laugh:

Currently looking at my 'Early Music' collection and am on William Byrd - presently if have 14 CDs (including multi-disc sets), shown below.  I feel the KB & consort works are covered, along w/ the masses - but what seems to be missing are more 'vocal' pieces; also I'm curious about whether any recent 'piano' versions of these keyboard works have emerged recently.  Any comments and suggestions appreciated.  Thanks.  Dave

   

   

Offline Mandryka

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Re: William Byrd's Perch
« Reply #50 on: September 06, 2021, 08:56:08 AM »
After nearly 5 years, TTT!  :laugh:

Currently looking at my 'Early Music' collection and am on William Byrd - presently if have 14 CDs (including multi-disc sets), shown below.  I feel the KB & consort works are covered, along w/ the masses - but what seems to be missing are more 'vocal' pieces; also I'm curious about whether any recent 'piano' versions of these keyboard works have emerged recently.  Any comments and suggestions appreciated.  Thanks.  Dave

   

   

If you like Lesne's voice this may be worth thinking about



And if you like Claire Wilkinson's voice this may be worth thinking about



Same for this, you have to like their voices of course

« Last Edit: September 06, 2021, 08:59:00 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline T. D.

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Re: William Byrd's Perch
« Reply #51 on: September 06, 2021, 09:10:40 AM »
Thanks for the reminder...I have no expertise in this field, but very much enjoyed what I've heard from the Cardinall's Musick on Hyperion. Was meaning to acquire more by that ensemble, but as noted above their "complete" series seems to have stalled out, and even [IMO] been rendered unlikely by a recording label change. Sadly, few Hyperions remain available from my preferred Hyperion vendor (Berkshire Record Outlet).

Offline SonicMan46

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Re: William Byrd's Perch
« Reply #52 on: September 06, 2021, 09:58:23 AM »
If you like Lesne's voice this may be worth thinking about:
And if you like Claire Wilkinson's voice this may be worth thinking about:
Same for this, you have to like their voices of course:



Thanks Mandryka for the recommendations above - might be difficult to find at a good price on Amazon - will check Spotify to see if I can listen to the singers; I usually enjoy the singing in 'early music'.

The reason I asked about using a 'piano' in these KB works is the newly released 2-CD set w/ Kit Armstrong (added above) - the attached reviews are quite positive - I'll look for that too on Spotify.  Thanks again.  Dave :)
« Last Edit: September 06, 2021, 10:09:29 AM by SonicMan46 »

Offline Mandryka

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Re: William Byrd's Perch
« Reply #53 on: September 06, 2021, 10:37:21 AM »
Thanks Mandryka for the recommendations above - might be difficult to find at a good price on Amazon - will check Spotify to see if I can listen to the singers; I usually enjoy the singing in 'early music'.

The reason I asked about using a 'piano' in these KB works is the newly released 2-CD set w/ Kit Armstrong (added above) - the attached reviews are quite positive - I'll look for that too on Spotify.  Thanks again.  Dave :)

One of the reviews of that piano cd mentioned this -- which I just ordered



I listened to Kit play the Byrd 10th Pavan -- it's not for me, mainly because I think the way he uses dynamics is a bit maudlin, but also because I think the piano trills sound kooky. I also sampled Wild Wood, and felt that somehow the harpsichord, or some harpsichords, make the bass as strong as the treble as it were, and it's a shame Kit's piano doesn't.  But in truth I probably haven't given it the attention it deserves.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2021, 10:41:08 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline DaveF

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Re: William Byrd's Perch
« Reply #54 on: September 06, 2021, 10:39:50 AM »
After nearly 5 years, TTT!  :laugh:

Currently looking at my 'Early Music' collection and am on William Byrd - presently if have 14 CDs (including multi-disc sets), shown below.  I feel the KB & consort works are covered, along w/ the masses - but what seems to be missing are more 'vocal' pieces; also I'm curious about whether any recent 'piano' versions of these keyboard works have emerged recently.  Any comments and suggestions appreciated.  Thanks.  Dave

Ashamed that I've posted nothing here for 5 years, too.  Dave, you look to be well covered with the Masses courtesy of the Tallis Scholars.  All of the Cardinall's Musick/Andrew Carwood discs are essential listening for Byrdians, but if you want to start with one, start at the end:



The Great Service is an unmissable masterpiece, of which there are plenty of recordings (again, the Cardinalls are good), but this one is a bit unusual:



- the only one, to my knowledge, performed at Byrd's written pitch rather than the standard minor 3rd higher.

A fine newcomer, which includes several previously unrecorded pieces, is:



I would second Mandryka's recommendations of the Adoramus te and Songs of sundrie natures discs - although the latter actually includes very little from Byrd's publication of that name.  (David Skinner tells me that the '1588' disc is planned as the first of 3 to cover Byrd's three English song-books, funding permitting.)

You could make room on your shelves for some of these by ditching Elizabeth Farr - lumpen, joyless and slow - every timing way longer than Christopher Hogwood's Nevell set, another bit of essential listening (although of course it's all covered in Davitt Moroney's box anyway).

... the Cardinall's Musick on Hyperion. Was meaning to acquire more by that ensemble, but as noted above their "complete" series seems to have stalled out, and even [IMO] been rendered unlikely by a recording label change.

Fairly early in the project Andrew Carwood decided that "complete" was going to mean "complete Latin Sacred" - his opinion was, probably correctly, that the Cardinalls were not suited to the lighter stuff in the English songbooks.  The switch from ASV to Hyperion was unfortunate, as it probably means that the whole set will never be available in a single box.  We Byrdians did rejoice when the '1588' discs appeared, as it now looks as though the published English music will be recorded complete.  That leaves the unpublished anthems and services for someone else to pick up...
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Offline SonicMan46

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Re: William Byrd's Perch
« Reply #55 on: September 06, 2021, 10:44:17 AM »
Well, Mandryka provided some great suggestions but could find none on Spotify for a listen - but I did put together a playlist w/ 4 recordings shown below, left - about 4 1/2 hrs which I'll audition later.  At the moment, I'm listening to Kit Armstrong (left reviews in one of my last posts for those interested) - he is indeed impressive - something I'd enjoy in a jazz piano bar - two quite prescient English composers from 400 years ago!  8)  Dave

 

Offline Mandryka

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Re: William Byrd's Perch
« Reply #56 on: September 06, 2021, 11:13:32 AM »
Well, Mandryka provided some great suggestions but could find none on Spotify for a listen - but I did put together a playlist w/ 4 recordings shown below, left - about 4 1/2 hrs which I'll audition later.  At the moment, I'm listening to Kit Armstrong (left reviews in one of my last posts for those interested) - he is indeed impressive - something I'd enjoy in a jazz piano bar - two quite prescient English composers from 400 years ago!  8)  Dave

 

Here's another approach to Byrd on piano

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/PJHaOCZ5KH8&amp;ab_channel=elwisw" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/PJHaOCZ5KH8&amp;ab_channel=elwisw</a>
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Offline T. D.

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Re: William Byrd's Perch
« Reply #57 on: September 06, 2021, 12:20:37 PM »
...All of the Cardinall's Musick/Andrew Carwood discs are essential listening for Byrdians, ...

Thanks for the excellent info. [OT] Excuse the weak boomer joke, I can't help substituting Byrdmaniax for the italicised (emphasis added) ....

Offline SonicMan46

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Re: William Byrd's Perch
« Reply #58 on: September 07, 2021, 06:43:39 AM »
Ashamed that I've posted nothing here for 5 years, too.  Dave, you look to be well covered with the Masses courtesy of the Tallis Scholars.  All of the Cardinall's Musick/Andrew Carwood discs are essential listening for Byrdians, but if you want to start with one, start at the end:

The Great Service is an unmissable masterpiece, of which there are plenty of recordings (again, the Cardinalls are good), but this one is a bit unusual:
A fine newcomer, which includes several previously unrecorded pieces, is:



I would second Mandryka's recommendations of the Adoramus te and Songs of sundrie natures discs - although the latter actually includes very little from Byrd's publication of that name.  (David Skinner tells me that the '1588' disc is planned as the first of 3 to cover Byrd's three English song-books, funding permitting.)

You could make room on your shelves for some of these by ditching Elizabeth Farr - lumpen, joyless and slow - every timing way longer than Christopher Hogwood's Nevell set, another bit of essential listening (although of course it's all covered in Davitt Moroney's box anyway).

Fairly early in the project Andrew Carwood decided that "complete" was going to mean "complete Latin Sacred" - his opinion was, probably correctly, that the Cardinalls were not suited to the lighter stuff in the English songbooks.  The switch from ASV to Hyperion was unfortunate, as it probably means that the whole set will never be available in a single box.  We Byrdians did rejoice when the '1588' discs appeared, as it now looks as though the published English music will be recorded complete.  That leaves the unpublished anthems and services for someone else to pick up...

Thanks DaveF for your excellent comments above!  I did listen to both Farr & Moroney yesterday and did enjoy him much more - and space is always an issue w/ me, so an option to consider.  Also yesterday, I visited BRO and perused their Byrd offerings - selected the 4 below for potential purchase but suspect the Chandos recording overlaps one or more of the Hyperion discs - for you Byrdians, which of these are worth a buy and any to eliminate?  Thanks.  Dave :)

     

Online vers la flamme

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Re: William Byrd's Perch
« Reply #59 on: September 07, 2021, 12:33:23 PM »
I just ordered the Songs of Sundrie Natures disc with the Hilliard Ensemble on EMI. Excited to explore it. I have their recording of the masses which is also quite fine.

By the way, listening to Kit Armstrong talk about Byrd on the Gramophone podcast a few months ago was quite fascinating. Guy knows his stuff. I'm not particularly interested in hearing this music played on piano, but perhaps I ought to check out his new record. To contribute to the Byrd on piano discussion, Glenn Gould has a classic disc with some Byrd:



Quite good as far as this stuff goes.