Mahler's Blumine

[LKB]

Hola again Andre,

I know what you're referring to...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._9_(Mahler)#III._Rondo-Burleske:_Allegro_assai._Sehr_trotzig

This trio in D Major is, l think, identified so strongly with the surrounding material in the Ninth that l would be reluctant to group it with Blumine or the posthorn solos. As to whether it represents a perspective or mood, certainly... The Rondo-Burleske is Mahler's perception of modern life. You can hear ( or project ) curbside confusion, mundane tasks, office politics, subway crowds, insipid conversation at the water-cooler... But then, for a couple of precious minutes, Mahler grants us a peaceful respite. The spirit breathes and we center ourselves in the privacy of our inner calm, the soul searches outward... and then the office lout arrives and sits down next to us, playing his E-Flat Clarinet. 

In short, the Trio represents that brief period of rest you may find when life is too complicated, frenzied or constricting. That is how l perceive it, at any rate.

Cheers,

LKB

[Biffo]

The 'Blumine' Andante in its original context in 'The Trumpeter of Sakkingen' very definitely was a moonlight piece. It accompanied a moonlit scene where the trumpeter Werner serenaded his sweetheart Margareta in her castle across the Rhine.

[LKB]

Quite true Biffo,

Werner's Trompetenlied was originally a moonlight serenade.

But when dissociated from the pageant play, Blumine is liberated from previous dramatic constraints and gains its own identity. Being abstract, though highly colored, it assumes whatever psychological contours each listener requires.

For me it is like a summer's day in a shaded meadow or glen, perhaps with a pristine Bach  meandering by to evoke Die schöne Müllerin.

Meanwhile, Andre hears the night in the trio of the Rondo-Burleske, while l imagine the eye of life's hurricane. We're both correct, and so is the listener whose gaze opens out on to Heaven.

And in the posthorn solos, each listener will create their own specific dream.

It is unfortunate that Kassel hosted factories for tank and aircraft production during WWII, along with other military targets. The remaining six pieces from the commission would certainly have been worth hearing, and we could explore the various relationships between all seven movements. And of course, we would have additional historical context for Mahler's subsequent efforts.

Does Blumine work better in its original context? Mahler may have thought so. It might even be another possible reason for his removing it from Sym. No. 1, though this seems unlikely.

More thoughts, please. 

Regards,

LKB

[Sergeant Rock]

Putting this together on my phone wasn't exactly a blissful experience, but l believe the result was worthwhile

Indeed, it was. Thank you.

Sarge

[LKB]

Sarge,

You're welcome. 

I do wish my PC hadn't crapped out on me a couple of months back, a real keyboard would have rendered the task so much easier. Anyway it's done, now l just have to wait for the next musical itch...

Wondering,

LKB

[Biffo]

I think the place for 'Blumine' now is as an independent piece so anyone can make of it what they want. Mahler changed its meaning (if that is the right word) by inserting it in his symphonic poem and later (in Hamburg) giving it the title 'Blumine' - sometimes translated as 'A Chapter of Flowers'.

The 'Trumpeter' was a great success for young Mahler and he was very proud of it. He gave individual movements away to friends but later asked for them back and destroyed them. The Andante survived because it had become part of the symphonic poem. Eventually Mahler thought that it was too sentimental and this may be part of the reason he dropped it. The consensus of what I have read is that the piece is too weak musically to have a part in the symphony. Mahler worked on the symphony over a long period of time, revising it as late as 1906.

I don't see the scherzo of the 3rd Symphony as moonlit, on the contrary it is a bright summer's day. The main theme comes from the early song 'Ablosung im Sommer' - 'Relief in Summer'. In the song, now that 'cuckoo is dead' we have to wait for the nightingale who sings when other birds are silent. In the Scherzo the animals are frolicking in the forest but are interrupted by the distant posthorn, they stop and listen. The posthorn is the first sound of mankind in the symphony, very haunting and possibly lonely.

Mahler loved the forests around Iglau. One day his father took for a walk in the forest but was called back to the town on business. He left little Gustav sitting on a log and said he would be back shortly. The business took longer than expected and the child was completely forgotten. Hours later the panic-stricken father returned to the forest and found Gustav exactly where he had left him, unafraid and completely absorbed in his own thoughts.

After Mahler had scrapped all programs and literary references for his symphonies he said he wanted the listener to make his own interpretations so I guess that is what we are doing here!

[LKB]

I think the place for 'Blumine' now is as an independent piece so anyone can make of it what they want. Mahler changed its meaning (if that is the right word) by inserting it in his symphonic poem and later (in Hamburg) giving it the title 'Blumine' - sometimes translated as 'A Chapter of Flowers'.

The 'Trumpeter' was a great success for young Mahler and he was very proud of it. He gave individual movements away to friends but later asked for them back and destroyed them. The Andante survived because it had become part of the symphonic poem. Eventually Mahler thought that it was too sentimental and this may be part of the reason he dropped it. The consensus of what I have read is that the piece is too weak musically to have a part in the symphony. Mahler worked on the symphony over a long period of time, revising it as late as 1906.

I don't see the scherzo of the 3rd Symphony as moonlit, on the contrary it is a bright summer's day. The main theme comes from the early song 'Ablosung im Sommer' - 'Relief in Summer'. In the song, now that 'cuckoo is dead' we have to wait for the nightingale who sings when other birds are silent. In the Scherzo the animals are frolicking in the forest but are interrupted by the distant posthorn, they stop and listen. The posthorn is the first sound of mankind in the symphony, very haunting and possibly lonely.

Mahler loved the forests around Iglau. One day his father took for a walk in the forest but was called back to the town on business. He left little Gustav sitting on a log and said he would be back shortly. The business took longer than expected and the child was completely forgotten. Hours later the panic-stricken father returned to the forest and found Gustav exactly where he had left him, unafraid and completely absorbed in his own thoughts.

After Mahler had scrapped all programs and literary references for his symphonies he said he wanted the listener to make his own interpretations so I guess that is what we are doing here!

Around 1981 or '82, l had the privilege of attending a recital by Dame Janet Baker, which included Ablösung im Sommer and a number of the other early songs... talk about magic! And illuminating as one might expect, hearing such an interpreter in her prime.

I would agree that Blumine is musically deficient within the context of Sym. No. 1 ( or, for that matter, any of Mahler's major works after Das Klagende Lied ). Removed from its original context, it compares with such works as Butterworth's The Banks of Green Willow, similar works of Delius and other such pastoral miniatures.

If I'm not mistaken, the " moonlight " comment referred to Andre's perception of the trio within the Rondo-Burleske of Sym. No. 9, not Sym. No. 3. Which is not to say that some listeners won't find moonlight in the posthorn solos...

And it is certainly true that Mahler intends each listener to experience his music freely within their imagination. Clouds for this person, castles for that one, ocean waves for the one over there. All great music liberates, by freeing the imagination of each listener to experience a story that is uniquely theirs.

Biffo, l appreciate your input. You are obviously as interested in this subject as l am, and l expect there are any number of Mahlerites who also have worthy additions to the thread.

Keep it coming folks, more opinions, observations and data are never a bad thing. 

Happily,

LKB

[Pat B]

The score of the 1893 Hamburg version survives and has been recorded. It is 'Titan, eine Tondichtung in Symphonieform' - Norrkoping Symphony Orchestra conducted by Ole Kristian Rudd. The disc is on the Simax label and also has the Piano Quartet in A inor movement, another bit of early Mahler.

Also by Hengelbrock with the NDRSO on Sony.

[Pat B]

While l was principal oboe at university, the conductor of the orchestra there was principal in the local metropolitan orchestra ( not an uncommon occurrence ). Her orchestra was about to perform Mahler's Second, and l would be singing in the chorus. We were chatting in her office, and she asked me which Mahler symphony was my favorite. After a moment's thought, l replied, " l think my favorite is my Ninth. "

Not Mahler's Ninth... my Ninth.

She laughed, and l was confused until l realized what had come out of my mouth. It's probably the only time I've blushed as an adult, a classic Freudian slip.

Thanks for sharing this bit. (And for the whole thread.)

[LKB]

Pat B,

You're welcome. 

While the anecdote is a bit embarrassing, l don't mind sharing it since it illustrates the extent to which GM has affected me... Something l fervently hope will never change. 

Cheers,

LKB

[Biffo]

Around 1981 or '82, l had the privilege of attending a recital by Dame Janet Baker, which included Ablösung im Sommer and a number of the other early songs... talk about magic! And illuminating as one might expect, hearing such an interpreter in her prime.
.....

Keep it coming folks, more opinions, observations and data are never a bad thing. 

Happily,

LKB

In the very first live concert I attended I heard Janet Baker sing Ravel's Sheherazade. As an uncouth youth of 17 I was bored stiff; fortunately, the second half of the concert was Sir John Barbirolli conducting the Symphonie Fantastique and I have never been the same since. Equally fortunately, I was able to hear Janet Baker many times over the years though the only time I heard her sing Mahler was 'Das Lied von der Erde' with Bernard Haitink.

While looking for something else related to this thread I was reading 'Gustav Mahler: The Wunderhorn Years' by Donald Mitchell. in a discussion of the Scherzo of the 3rd Symphony he says that for a time while planning the symphony he considered having a second scherzo and it was going to be 'twilit'. Eventually the two scherzos merged and references to twilight disappeared from the sketches etc. Possibly the idea of twilight lingered on in the music.

Next thing on the agenda is to actually listen to 'Blumine' something I haven't done for a while.

[LKB]

Hearing Dame Janet in Das Lied with Haitink is no small event, l would count myself fortunate to have been there.

Symphonie Fantastique blew me away in my initial hearing as well, not long before my first exposure to Mahler. It was probably the third symphony l memorized, after Eroica and Brahms' Third.

My familiarity with Blumine, on the other hand, is quite recent - I had never heard it until two weeks ago, though I've been aware of its inclusion in the original and Titan-ic incarnations of Mahler's First for decades. If l hadn't been motivated to explore possible reasons for Mahler's ultimate rejection, l might have never heard it.

This will be a hectic day for me, so l may not have opportunities for further postings until the evening.

Happy Saturday,

LKB