Unnecessary titles for symphonies

Started by Maestro267, October 24, 2017, 12:14:07 AM

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Maestro267

Listening to Penderecki's Symphony No. 2, and it got me thinking about symphonies with titles that don't really reflect the music contained therein. Penderecki 2 contains a couple of very brief and not-immediately-obvious quotations of Silent Night, so for some reason someone decided to title the whole work the "Christmas" Symphony, despite the vast majority of its 35 minute duration having nothing whatsoever to do with Christmas.

Another unnecessary title is "Polish" for Tchaikovsky's 3rd Symphony. Again, just because the finale's a Polonaise. Why?

Any other suggestions? Preferably those done by marketing people. Titles determined by the composer themselves are by default OK for those works.

Biffo

'Titan' for Mahler's 1st Symphony is completely unnecessary. Mahler reluctantly gave a name and a programme of sorts to his Symphonic Poem. When he revised it and called it a symphony he discarded the title 'Titan' and all the other literary references in the score. Lazy record companies, programme writers etc insist on using a name that has no relevance to the symphony.

some guy

I would say "all," not excluding those given by the composers.

Biffo

Nicknames are sometimes useful, especially with a composer like Haydn who was so prolific. A number isn't always memorable enough and with some composers there are more than one numbering systems. I will also concede that many names are pretty tenuous and should be dispensed with.

Florestan

Quote from: some guy on October 24, 2017, 01:35:47 AM
I would say "all," not excluding those given by the composers.

Why, of course, painting with the broadest possible brush is one of your favorite pastimes.

TD: Symphony of a Thousand.
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: some guy on October 24, 2017, 01:35:47 AM
I would say "all," not excluding those given by the composers.

My kind of guy!  :)

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Mirror Image

All of the Bruckner titles for his symphonies: like the 'Philosophic,' 'Apocalyptic,' 'The Saucy Maid,' 'Wagner,' etc.

kyjo

Quote from: Mirror Image on October 24, 2017, 05:37:33 AM
All of the Bruckner titles for his symphonies: like the 'Philosophic,' 'Apocalyptic,' 'The Saucy Maid,' 'Wagner,' etc.

Fortunately, they're rarely used 8)
"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" - Sergei Rachmaninoff

Monsieur Croche

#8
Quote from: some guy on October 24, 2017, 01:35:47 AM
I would say "all," not excluding those given by the composers.

Yup, Yep, Yes.

~ I'm all for personal expression; it just has to express something to me. ~

Karl Henning

(Feels rather smugly pleased that his First Symphony has nothing in the shape of a nickname.)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 24, 2017, 12:07:02 PM
(Feels rather smugly pleased that his First Symphony has nothing in the shape of a nickname.)

I am also pleased: delighted in fact.   0:)

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

mc ukrneal

Be kind to your fellow posters!!

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 24, 2017, 12:07:02 PM
(Feels rather smugly pleased that his First Symphony has nothing in the shape of a nickname.)

But considering the delightful and whimsical names you've given most of your compositions, you can imagine how disappointed I am that your Symphony has no nickname  :(

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Mahlerian

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 24, 2017, 12:07:02 PM
(Feels rather smugly pleased that his First Symphony has nothing in the shape of a nickname.)

Careful, some wag might give it one to spite you!
"l do not consider my music as atonal, but rather as non-tonal. I feel the unity of all keys. Atonal music by modern composers admits of no key at all, no feeling of any definite center." - Arnold Schoenberg

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: Mahlerian on October 24, 2017, 12:51:16 PM
Careful, some wag might give it one to spite you!

;D :D ;D ...I'm tempted  8)


Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: Biffo on October 24, 2017, 01:42:51 AM
Nicknames are sometimes useful, especially with a composer like Haydn who was so prolific.

Thank you. We were just discussing that the other day in the Haydn thread.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Christo

#16
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 24, 2017, 05:37:33 AMAll of the Bruckner titles for his symphonies: like the 'Philosophic,' 'Apocalyptic,' 'The Saucy Maid,' 'Wagner,' etc.
The Saucy What??!??  ???  ???
... music is not only an 'entertainment', nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

Mahlerian

Quote from: Christo on October 24, 2017, 01:47:50 PM
The Saucy What??!??  ???  ???

That one originates with Bruckner himself.  See Wiki.  I think he meant it as a description of the character of the work, rather than a nickname, per se...
"l do not consider my music as atonal, but rather as non-tonal. I feel the unity of all keys. Atonal music by modern composers admits of no key at all, no feeling of any definite center." - Arnold Schoenberg

some guy

Quote from: Mahlerian on October 24, 2017, 12:51:16 PM
Careful, some wag might give it one to spite you!
I could change my handle to "some wag."

Good idea.

Also, I have nicknamed your first symphony for you, Karl: The Untitled. So, to be pedantic: Karl Henning's symphony no. 1, The Untitled.

I'd give your second symphony a moniker, too, "The Unbegun," but I have a sneaking suspicion that one's been used already.

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: some guy on October 24, 2017, 01:57:03 PM
I'd give your second symphony a moniker, too, "The Unbegun," but I have a sneaking suspicion that one's been used already.

Indeed, by none other than that master P.D.Q.  8)

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"