Debussy Études

Started by Mirror Image, April 02, 2018, 06:25:35 AM

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kishnevi

I've been listening to Uchida's recording of the Etudes in an issue (Great Pianists of the 20th Century) in which the performance is paired with Schonberg's Three Piano Pieces Op. 11.

The pairing illuminates both works, I think. At the very least, I don't think Uchida's playing lacks emotional depth.

Spineur

I just listened to Uchida and Jacobs Etudes in a row.  What is more interesting in Jacobs rendering is the richness in his sound palette with musical colors that one usually associates with an orchestra.  It gives to these pieces a larger dimension.  Uchida, sticks closer to the score, usually a quality, but here it isnt quite enough.


Mirror Image

Quote from: Spineur on April 21, 2018, 12:44:00 AM
I just listened to Uchida and Jacobs Etudes in a row.  What is more interesting in Jacobs rendering is the richness in his sound palette with musical colors that one usually associates with an orchestra.  It gives to these pieces a larger dimension.  Uchida, sticks closer to the score, usually a quality, but here it isnt quite enough.

Interesting take on both performances, Spineur. I think what I ultimately didn't enjoy in the Uchida performance was the mechanical aspect of her playing. Jacobs takes an approach that is more kaleidoscopic. Like you said, his palette is wider and, for me, this makes his performance unique and much more satisfying.

Mirror Image

Too bad Kocsis didn't record the Études while he was recording his Debussy on Philips. :(

Mirror Image

#24
Speaking of Jacobs' Études recording, I wonder if Dancing Divertimentian ever listened his recording via YouTube? I'm not even sure if it's on YT as I haven't check myself.

Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 21, 2018, 06:53:24 AM
Speaking of Jacobs' Études recording, I wonder if Dancing Divertimentian ever listened his recording via YouTube? I'm not even sure if it's on YT as I haven't check myself.

Hey, MI. Yes, found Jacobs on Youtube, and yes, listened to a sampling. Verdict: excellent, but not the last word, I'd say. But then, who WOULD be the last word in this work?

My fave is still the recent Vignon (who's also on Youtube). Vignon has a huge range, very high highs and very low lows. Jacobs is perhaps more nimble, but I'm not arguing with either pianists' choices. Just different slices of the etudes pie.
Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Mirror Image

#26
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on April 22, 2018, 11:22:29 AM
Hey, MI. Yes, found Jacobs on Youtube, and yes, listened to a sampling. Verdict: excellent, but not the last word, I'd say. But then, who WOULD be the last word in this work?

My fave is still the recent Vignon (who's also on Youtube). Vignon has a huge range, very high highs and very low lows. Jacobs is perhaps more nimble, but I'm not arguing with either pianists' choices. Just different slices of the etudes pie.

Indeed, there is no pianist who has the last word on anything of Debussy's IMHO, but Jacobs remains a solid favorite (all his Debussy is in a class of its' own). I will have to check out Vignon as I'm always interested in hearing new performances of this work. Too bad Kocsis never recorded it. :( Thanks for the recommendation.

Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 22, 2018, 11:25:36 AM
...But Jacobs remains a solid favorite (all his Debussy is in a class of its' own).

With the scope of Debussy keyboard interpretation as vast a the stars in the sky "class of its own" is a tough measurement to pin down. I don't subscribe to it, just like I don't subscribe to the idea that pianist x, or pianist y, or pianist 7wb8s6 fits that bill. 

I'm a fan of Jacobs but he's just one of many who've taken the plunge into the Debussy, err...mer.
Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Mirror Image

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on April 22, 2018, 11:57:42 AM
With the scope of Debussy keyboard interpretation as vast a the stars in the sky "class of its own" is a tough measurement to pin down. I don't subscribe to it, just like I don't subscribe to the idea that pianist x, or pianist y, or pianist 7wb8s6 fits that bill. 

I'm a fan of Jacobs but he's just one of many who've taken the plunge into the Debussy, err...mer.

I meant this in a complimentary way and was in no way meaning that there weren't other Debussy pianists that offer viable performances and views of their own. The only thing I subscribe to is if I like the performance and interpretation and Jacobs' Debussy checks all the right boxes for me.

Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 22, 2018, 12:18:14 PM
I meant this in a complimentary way and was in no way meaning that there weren't other Debussy pianists that offer viable performances and views of their own. The only thing I subscribe to is if I like the performance and interpretation and Jacobs' Debussy checks all the right boxes for me.

Cool photos in your signature!
Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Mirror Image

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on April 22, 2018, 01:19:04 PM
Cool photos in your signature!

Thanks, DD. I was thinking it would be something different than a composer quote.

snyprrr

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 22, 2018, 01:30:52 PM
Thanks, DD. I was thinking it would be something different than a composer quote.

Have you heard any of Beroff's Debussy, either the earlier EMI, or the later Denon? I keep hearing things from his fingers that I'm not getting elsewhere... he has something of the Superman in him... maybe too "virtuoso"? (as opposed to "poetic"), eh, but I like his barnstorming style...

snyprrr

Alain Planes, anyone? Again,...Beroff, anyone? Here are two labels known for their spectacular sound...

Mirror Image

Quote from: snyprrr on April 27, 2018, 05:49:37 AM
Have you heard any of Beroff's Debussy, either the earlier EMI, or the later Denon? I keep hearing things from his fingers that I'm not getting elsewhere... he has something of the Superman in him... maybe too "virtuoso"? (as opposed to "poetic"), eh, but I like his barnstorming style...

I haven't heard any of Béroff's Debussy, but I'm not in any hurry as I'm quite content with many of the recordings I own (esp. Jacobs, Kocsis). I like the more poetic approach to Debussy than the 'virtuosic' or 'aggressive' approach that you seem to favor.

snyprrr

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 30, 2018, 10:11:39 AM
I haven't heard any of Béroff's Debussy, but I'm not in any hurry as I'm quite content with many of the recordings I own (esp. Jacobs, Kocsis). I like the more poetic approach to Debussy than the 'virtuosic' or 'aggressive' approach that you seem to favor.

Well, I just blew it on an original copy of Kocsis's Preludes ($9.99 from Zoverstocks :'( :'( :'(),... ahhh, well, I had to wait for the bank, I guess I could have 'Sunday'd' it, but, yea, I didn't get it in time and now I'm going back to the drawing board for Debussy.

This 1/2 Martin Jones Nimbus Cycle really isn't bad, and the typical Nimbus reverb seems to work well with the early works. And... Weissenberg just totally "ruined" my day, lol!!


btw- I do like the Poetic approach also,... I'm surprised that Beroff's virtuoso approach appealed to me in Debussy. I just can't passed Gieseking's recorded sound...mmm...

Haas,... Rev,... Heidesack,... Herbler(?),... still curious about Planes, and I can't find any samples...

snyprrr

Got Aimard for $1...


I hadn't found the Etudes to my liking,... I dunno, that first one just seems oddly spastic and I was almost unable to move beyond bits and pieces. The main thing with the Aimard, on one level, for me, is the sound: it almost seems slightly covered in shimmering running waters, but at the same time elevated in an air conditioned cocoon...???????... I do like the PianoImage/Sound Teldec has given their modern Aimard recordings (Carter comes to mind), and I think the sound here (which sounds a little like a really good SONY piano recording a la Volodos?) gives any big fortes a lovely splash in the pool on a crisp day.

Then there is the Modernism. Debussy's is quite Objective, and yet so much "cheerier" than Schoenberg et al. And, there is the, what I perceive, the recognition of the ModernEra- skyscraping and films and cars and atoms and science and geometry... and here is where Aimard seems to highlight these pieces as Great Prophecies,- and he makes me generally believe it.

He's not as feral as Uchida, and the added coloures help me immeasurably in appreciating these pieces. I might be able to see how some might view this "softness" (oh, that might not be a good word for you, but I don't mean any hint of softness by Aimard, other that what he may do on purpose).

Maybe if Stravinsky was a piano virtuoso he might have penned some interesting Etudes such as these, and that is how I see these- SuperModern, for the time, pieces, written by and for the virtuous. There is no earth sky water fire, JUST MIND.

Sure, in certain moments I could have maybe wanted this or that (but I'm still unfamiliar with the pieces), but, overall, Aimard's conception GOT ME THERE! I understand now and can put this in context, so, I've "won" another piece to me.

I think this an example of a GreatInstrument, GreatRecording, and THOUGHTFULInterpretation all coming together for the greatest overall aural experience of these pieces.

Don't know about the other Major Label issues, JYT, and such, maybe they all have differing and exciting sonic profiles too? Uchida= clean, antiseptic; Aimard=plush

Herman

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 21, 2018, 06:49:24 AM
Too bad Kocsis didn't record the Études while he was recording his Debussy on Philips. :(

absolutely. Strange he didn't start with the Etudes.

Herman

#37
I don't have any of the reservations voiced here about Uchida. It's pretty clear (to me) that she doesn't not regard Debussy's Etudes as mere virtuoso showpieces, but rather as revolutionary expressive works. That's the kind of performer she is. (There is also the Youtube interview.)

The recordings I like best are the Bavouzet on Chandos; he seems to have it all. And Rogé on Onyx, which is a little slower sometimes than I like. He does build the second Book wonderfully though. It's an indispensable disc, just like the Bavouzet.

The Aimard is strangely disappointing.

The Pollini is vintage Pollini. It's very hard to listen to.

I don't know Jacobs.

aukhawk

Aimard is always disappointing.  I don't find it strange any more.  :(

Herman

Quote from: aukhawk on August 10, 2018, 02:29:41 AM
Aimard is always disappointing.  I don't find it strange any more.  :(

I thought it was strange because I had heard him play a ouple of Etudes in concert and they were exciting.
None of that excitement in the studio.
This happens a lot, of course.