The String Quartet Game (Round Two)

[Mahlerian]

Then why all the fuss about Ligeti?

Because I think it's a masterpiece and a list of string quartets without it is poorer for it, and because of the way it was shoved out of the way at the last second.

[Florestan]

Because I think it's a masterpiece and a list of string quartets without it is poorer for it, and because of the way it was shoved out of the way at the last second.

You tend to take the GMG things much more seriously than they should be taken (in general, not only in this thread). Relax, man, there are far worse things that can happen in real life than Ligeti being "shoved out" in an internet forum. You could use a little bit of nonchalance and detachment.

[Mahlerian]

You tend to take the GMG things much more seriously than they should be taken (in general, not only in this thread). Relax, man, there are far worse things that can happen in real life than Ligeti being "shoved out" in an internet forum. You could use a little bit of nonchalance and detachment.

Your ad hominems aside, why should I apologize for loving music enough to take it seriously on a music forum?

[Florestan]

Your ad hominems aside

What ad hominems, pray tell?

[Sammy]

Because I think it's a masterpiece and a list of string quartets without it is poorer for it, and because of the way it was shoved out of the way at the last second.

Let's assume that you are correct that the last two or three voters were trying to insure that the Ligeti didn't advance.  There's nothing wrong with that - a voter's motivation is his/her own business as long as the game rules are followed.  One of the basic voter motivations is to try to influence game outcomes; I do it quite often.

[San Antone]

Your ad hominems aside, why should I apologize for loving music enough to take it seriously on a music forum?

If you should apologize for anything, it would be for accusing me of purposely denying Ligeti a spot among the final three. 

As I have said I was ignoring Ligeti, did not know how close he was to 100 and did not vote for Schubert and Haydn instead of Ligeti (I forgot he was even there), but because I like those works and knew Weinberg, Arensky and Shostakovich were not going to make it, and wanted to advance those works that I liked the best to the final round.

[Mahlerian]

If you should apologize for anything, it would be for accusing me of purposely denying Ligeti a spot among the final three. 

As I have said I was ignoring Ligeti, did not know how close he was to 100 and did not vote for Schubert and Haydn instead of Ligeti (I forgot he was even there), but because I like those works and knew Weinberg, Arensky and Shostakovich were not going to make it, and wanted to advance those works that I liked the best to the final round.

I'm sorry.  I guess I'm feeling cranky today.  I shouldn't have gone off on you or Baron Scarpia like that.  It was my own frustration more than anything else.

[San Antone]

Apology accepted.

Now on to Round Three ...

[Trout]

Tough result for Ligeti. I think we should direct all our frustrations toward Sammy for implementing such a draconian cutoff.

[André]

Shostakovich not doing so well is pretty surprising, I always thought him among the most popular 20th century composers, but maybe the 12th just isn't a very popular quartet, I don't know—since the list was made up of single vote nominations in the first place it's hard to tell what outside of the tried and true is going to get the most support, though we've already seen that nominations don't always equate to votes, I've even had to neglect composers I nominated because I felt others were more deserving of votes. Ligeti is very popular among 20th century composers of a "progressive" stripe, maybe the most popular of all, and the 2nd quartet is his most major and most well known work in the genre, both of which probably count a great deal towards it being the most strongly supported of the modern selections in this round. But it's also the case that one voter can't hold up more than two selections on their own, whichever way you split it someone's going to have to get two points, maybe even one, but even then it's no guarantee, even with a consistent stream of fives advancement is not assured, as we see with Ligeti in this case. Them's the breaks; with only three in every twenty making it through to the next stage it's very exclusive.

Just to be clear: At no point in this discussion has it been my intent to complain about other people's voting, I'm just making the observation that the way things are going I don't think it's going to be a very exciting list going into the next stage of the game.

I didn't support the 12th because I focused on 2 works I really wanted to see going to the next round. Two more DSCH quartets will come up later (8 and 15) and one of them will have my vote on every single day. Which means one of the two I supported in this round might not get my vote.  It's a tactical game. In order to win the battle you must lose some soldiers, however good they are.

[Sergeant Rock]

Arensky - String Quartet no. 2 in A minor, op. 35 - 18
Bax - String Quartet no. 1 in G major - 10
Beethoven - String Quartet no. 16 in F major, op. 135 - 16
Brahms - String Quartet no. 3 in B flat major, op. 67 - 2
Crumb - Black Angels - 14 (+2)
Dvořák - String Quartet no. 13 in G major, op. 106 - 26
Ferneyhough - String Quartet no. 6 - 15
Haydn - String Quartet in D major, op. 20/4 - 0
Haydn - String Quartet in G major, op. 77/1 "Lobkowitz" - 29
Janácek - String Quartet no. 2 "Intimate letters" - 15 (+5)

Ligeti - String Quartet no. 2 - 23
Mozart - Adagio and Fugue in C minor, K 546 - 2
Myaskovsky - String Quartet no. 4 in F minor, op. 33/4 - 6
Post (David) - String Quartet no. 2 - 0
Rubbra - String Quartet no. 2 in E flat major, op. 73 - 1
Schubert - String Quartet no. 12 in C minor, D 703 "Quartettsatz" - 28
Shostakovich - String Quartet no. 12 in D flat major, op. 133 - 7
Takemitsu - Landscape for String Quartet - 10 (+3)
Toldrà - Vistes al mar - 0
Weinberg - String Quartet no. 11, op. 89 - 8

Mahlerian, it's obviously your fault that Ligeti didn't win   You wasted five valuable points (which would have put Ligeti over the top) on Takemitsu and Crumb.

Sarge

[Gurn Blanston]

He wasn't my favorite.  My favorite work in this round, the one I voted for most, was Janacek.  I was irked by the fact that Ligeti's work was pushed out of contention at the last second.

FWIW, I voted Janacek (Kreutzer Sonata) all the way in the last round. I have to tell you though, it never even occurred to me that anyone was voting against certain composers. Any vote I wasted doing that would be one I couldn't cast for a favorite.

[Gurn Blanston]

I didn't support the 12th because I focused on 2 works I really wanted to see going to the next round. Two more DSCH quartets will come up later (8 and 15) and one of them will have my vote on every single day. Which means one of the two I supported in this round might not get my vote.  It's a tactical game. In order to win the battle you must lose some soldiers, however good they are.

vis-à-vis DSCH, I agree. I am going to back 15 when it comes around. We'll see what else is on the list... you can't push ALL your faves over the top. 

[Mahlerian]

Mahlerian, it's obviously your fault that Ligeti didn't win   You wasted five valuable points (which would have put Ligeti over the top) on Takemitsu and Crumb.

Sarge

Guess I'll have to own up to that one!   

[André]

I did get to listen to two works I'd not have known otherwise: the Adamek and Ligeti. That was time well spent.

[Sergeant Rock]

I did get to listen to two works I'd not have known otherwise: the Adamek and Ligeti. That was time well spent.

Yes, time well spent. I wasn't familiar with either Quartet and was glad to have heard them. Really enjoyed the Adamek, especially the "percussive" first movement.

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

Guess I'll have to own up to that one!   

But seriously, I feel your pain. My favorite Beethoven Quartet (op.135) didn't make it either. I can't believe it! Muss es sein? Yeah, es muss sein 

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

vis-à-vis DSCH, I agree. I am going to back 15 when it comes around.

And I'll be voting for 2 and 3 (probably...but I don't know the competition yet...but probably).

Sarge

[Baron Scarpia]

Here are the votes until today:

Baron Scarpia
Beethoven +10
Janacek +15
Mozart +5

San Antone
Arensky +13
Myaskovsky +7
Shostakovich +12
Weinberg +8

Mahlerian
Beethoven +4
Crumb +2
Janacek +15
Ligeti +10
Takemitsu +9


Then, today, Baron Scarpia and San Antone decide to vote for works they have not thus far supported, pushing them above Ligeti and Ligeti out of the game.

I was pulling for Mozart and Janacek. When Mozart got wiped out I was pulling for Janacek and Beethoven, and Beethoven was initially not doing so well. When I saw Janacek in a hopeless position and Beethoven at the top I wanted to be done with it.

If I wanted to sabotage anyone it would have been Haydn, due to my annoyance at the fact that the finale is looking like a lineup with multiple Haydn works and no Mozart at all. If I had noticed that Ligeti was so close I might have voted for him in the hope of sinking Haydn (sorry Gurn).

[Baron Scarpia]

And now I see I misread Beethoven's score.
With family obligations I had all of 15 seconds to vote.