The Greatest Recording Ever Made: Nominations for the Poll

[aukhawk]

The Boulez and Solti Ring Cycles were the ones I listened to first, and while I prefer the orchestral sound on the Boulez, I have to say that the Solti does have better singing generally.

When you read Culshaw and the incredible lengths he went to to assemble the cast he wanted (never all at the same time of course, such luxury is recording) - I should hope so!

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

Question: what about music recorded as an 'edition' of complete works, as in Vänskä's Sibelius Edition on BIS? Does that count as a single nomination considering it's something of a complete musicological work in itself, groundbreaking in the fact that it is a publication of recorded works rather than just scores, or does each volume count as a single nomination?

I think for something to be notable as a 'Greatest Recording' it should be something that is out of the ordinary.........

[André]

Vänskä's disc of the original version of the 5th symphony certainly deserves mention (it's coupled with the familiar definitive version). As for the whole edition, I'm not convinced. What exactly had never been recorded before, and how important are these works ?

[Ken B]

Question: what about music recorded as an 'edition' of complete works, as in Vänskä's Sibelius Edition on BIS? Does that count as a single nomination considering it's something of a complete musicological work in itself, groundbreaking in the fact that it is a publication of recorded works rather than just scores, or does each volume count as a single nomination?

I think for something to be notable as a 'Greatest Recording' it should be something that is out of the ordinary.........

I nominate the DG catalogue.

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

Vänskä's disc of the original version of the 5th symphony certainly deserves mention (it's coupled with the familiar definitive version). As for the whole edition, I'm not convinced. What exactly had never been recorded before, and how important are these works ?

I mean, the effort put into the publication as a great musicological and recording venture in its own right to create a definitive and complete catalogue of works by Sibelius to listen to. This is different to other complete recorded editions of a composer's work where existing recordings are cobbled together and a few minor works are recorded for the first time for the sake of completion.

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

I nominate the DG catalogue.

I don't quite understand what you're saying.....

[Ken B]

I don't quite understand what you're saying.....

Actually the entire Seon catalogue is available in a box. Why not it? Why not the complete Karajan?
Whatever "great recording" singular means it doesn't mean dozens of discs recorded over decades by scores of performers.

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

Actually the entire Seon catalogue is available in a box. Why not it? Why not the complete Karajan?
Whatever "great recording" singular means it doesn't mean dozens of discs recorded over decades by scores of performers.

Yeah that's what I am saying is different about the Sibelius Edition. It was put together with a completed edition in mind, overseen by Osmo Vanska and BIS, not entirely re-releases of heaps of recordings by various artists not intended for a project like it (although admittedly there are some older recordings in there). That's what makes the Sibelius Edition stand out as different and with a purpose to provide top notch performances by leading experts of Sibelius, hence why I asked. I don't know why you are bringing up the idea of an entire catalogue of unrelated recordings released by a record company because it is entirely irrelevant to the purpose of this thread as you have rightly mentioned. What are you trying to achieve by bringing it up in the first place?

[SurprisedByBeauty]

Yeah that's what I am saying is different about the Sibelius Edition. It was put together with a completed edition in mind, overseen by Osmo Vanska and BIS, not entirely re-releases of heaps of recordings by various artists not intended for a project like it (although admittedly there are some older recordings in there). That's what makes the Sibelius Edition stand out as different and with a purpose to provide top notch performances by leading experts of Sibelius, hence why I asked. I don't know why you are bringing up the idea of an entire catalogue of unrelated recordings released by a record company because it is entirely irrelevant to the purpose of this thread as you have rightly mentioned. What are you trying to achieve by bringing it up in the first place?

There's much to that -- and sometimes the line between "project" and "recording" is not clear. (We encounter that with the Ring... or any box set, already.) Alas, I think it really is another ballgame if we consider such projects as well... for one, we get "quantity" as a determinant. It doesn't quite fit the idea of "Great Recording" neatly enough. Otherwise, how could a Tchaik. 6th of Mravinsky or Kleiber Figaro or a Kleiber jr. Beethoven 5th possibly compete against the first complete Bach Cantata recording collection? Or all of Sibelius...

[aukhawk]

It seems to me that a 'recording' represents a single event (it isn't of course - Casals Bach was recorded over 3 years - but you get the illusion of a single event).
It seems reasonable to include a 'coupling' of two well-matched recordings (Quartetto Italiano Debussy/Ravel).
It is stretching things a bit more to include a 'set' of several well-matched recordings (Mravinsky Tchaikovsky 4-6) but one thing I have learned since first visiting this forum is that GMG-ers do like their box sets and integrals. 

[SurprisedByBeauty]

It seems to me that a 'recording' represents a single event (it isn't of course - Casals Bach was recorded over 3 years - but you get the illusion of a single event).
It seems reasonable to include a 'coupling' of two well-matched recordings (Quartetto Italiano Debussy/Ravel).
It is stretching things a bit more to include a 'set' of several well-matched recordings (Mravinsky Tchaikovsky 4-6) but one thing I have learned since first visiting this forum is that GMG-ers do like their box sets and integrals. 

The perception of a "Recording" has much to do with the marketing. If a recording was famous already in LP days, it might differ from a recording that became really famous only in CD days.
Karajan's '63 Beethoven cycle was so heavily promoted as a set, it appears to us as "a recording" by now. Ditto Solti's Ring. Two examples at the outer fringe of the dividing line. Or perhaps just outside.


FIRST POLL to whittle down the list: Please come vote early and often!

<Bruckner>

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

Ah, tis a shame one of my favourite Bruckner conductors, Simone Young, didn't make it. But my other favourite, Jochum, did. So that's good.

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

Just gonna quickly nominate that Répons recoding. Possibly notable for its technological innovations emulating three dimensional sound.

[SurprisedByBeauty]

List of possible candidates for inclusion in a poll about "Greatest Recording Ever Made"

Now sorted by composer so that we may perhaps start bracketing to whittle things down.


Bach


Bach, Matthew Passion, Klemperer, EMI _ I / -2

Bach Matthäus Passion, Leonhardt (Harmonia Mundi) _ I

Bach Matthäus Passion, Harnoncourt III (Harmonia Mundi) _ I

Bach Matthäus Passion, Mogens Wöldike (Vanguard/The Bach Guild)

Bach, Mass in B Minor, Gardiner, Archiv _ III

Bach, Christmas Oratorio, Karl Richter, Archiv

Bach, Orchestral Suites, Harnoncourt, Teldec

Bach Goldberg Variations, Xhu Xiao-Mei (Mirare)

Bach, Goldberg Variations, Leonhardt, 1978, DHM _ I

Bach Goldberg Variations, Glenn Gould, Columbia _ III

Bach, Concertos italiaens, Tharaud, Harmonia Mundi _ II

Bach, Sonatas & Partitas, Milstein, DG _ I

Bach, Cello Suites, Casals, EMI _ I

Bach, Cello Suites, Fournier, DG

Bach, Organ Works, Karl Richter, DG

Bach, Organ works, Kooiman (Coronata) _ I

Bach Die Kunst der Fuge [organ] Rogg (EMI) _ I

Bach Das wohltemperierte Clavier, Gilbert (DG/Archiv) _ I

Bach Brandenburg Concertos, Goebel (DG/Archiv) _ I



Beethoven


Beethoven, Violin Concerto, Kreisler/Blech EMI

Beethoven, Violin Concerto, Zehetmair, Brugen, Philips

Beethoven, Triple Concerto, Richter, Oistrakh, Slava, HvK, EMI

Beethoven Symphonies (alternatively: Eroica?), Karajan, 1963, DG _ I (BOX)

Beethoven Symphonies, Zinman, Tonhalle, Arte Nova _ -1

Beethoven Symphonies, Toscanini, RCA BOX _ -1

Beethoven Eroica Symphony, Furtwängler, WP 1943 (EMI)

Beethoven Eroica Symphony, Monteux, Concertgebouw Orchestra (Philips/Decca)

Beethoven Symphony No 3 'Eroica' E Kleiber/VPO _ I

Beethoven, Eroica Symphony, Gardienr, ORR, Archiv

Beethoven Pastoral symphony: Walter, Columbia Symphony (Sony)

Beethoven, Symphonies 5 & 7, Carlos Kleiber, DG _ IIII

Beethoven, LvB 7, NYP, Toscanini, RCA _ I

Beethoven, Symphony No.9, Furtwangler, Bayreuth, EMI

Beethoven, Symphony No.9, Fricsay, DG

Beethoven Missa Solemnis: Bernstein, Concertgebouw (DGG)

Beethoven Sonatas, Schnabel, EMI _ II BOX

Beethoven Piano Sonatas, Backhaus II, Decca _ I BOX

Beethoven, String Quartets, Busch Quartet, HMV/EMI/Warner



Brahms



Brahms Piano Concertos, Gilels/Jochum, DG _ II

Brahms Piano Concertos, Fleisher/Szell, Sony _ I

Brahms Symphony 4, Kleiber, DG _ I

Brahms Symphony no 2: Abbado, BP (1969) (DGG)

Brahms Symphony no 3: Walter, Columbia Symphony (Sony)

Brahms, PC 1, Rubinstein, Reiner, RCA


Bruckner


Bruckner 7, Vienna, Karajan, DG _ IIII

Bruckner: Eugen Jochum, Symphony #7 / Complete Bruckner Symphonies, DG _ I

Bruckner, Symphony no 5: Klemperer, New Philharmonia (EMI) _ IIIII

Bruckner, Symphony No.5, Celibidache, MPhil, EMI _ III

Bruckner, Symphony no 6: Keilberth, BP (Teldec)

Bruckner, Symphony no 8: Böhm, WP (DGG) _ III

Bruckner 5, Jochum, RCO, "Ottobeuren", Philips_ IIIII

Bruckner 8, Wand, BPh, RCA_ III

Bruckner 9, Giulini, Vienna, DG_ IIIII I

Bruckner 9, Haitink II, RCO, Philips_ IIII




Britten


Britten, Peter Grimes, Britten-Pears et al., Decca _ I

Britten, Peter Grimes, Davis, Vickers, Philips _ I

Britten, War Requiem, Britten, Decca. _ I


Mozart


Mozart, Figaro, E.Kleiber, Decca _ III

Mozart, Horn Concertos, Brian, EMI _ III

Mozart, Clarinet Concerto, Pay/Hogwood, Decca

Mozart Mass in C minor/Leppard _ I

Mozart, Symphonies, Hogwood (Decca/l'Oiseau Lyre) _ I BOX

Mozart Figaro, Solti (Decca) _ I

Mozart Così, Klemperer (EMI) _ I

Mozart Zauberflöte, Klemperer (EMI) _ I

Mozart, Requiem, Harnoncourt, DHM

Mozart, Requiem, Boehm, DG


Schubert


Schubert String Quintet, Prades (Casals/Tortelier)

Schubert, Death & Maiden, Amadeus Quartet, DG _ I

Schubert Complete Symphonies Immerseel (Columbia/Zig Zag) _ I BOX

Schubert, Schoene Muellerin, Fischer-Dieskau, Moore, EMI

Schubert, Winterreise, Fischer-Dieskau, Demus, DG _ II


Shostakovich & Prokofiev


Prokofiev Piano Sonata 8 et al, S.Richter, DG

DSCH, VC & CC, Oistrahk, Rostropovich, CBS _ I

DSCH, Sy.5, Bernstein (Tokyo), Sony

DSCH, Sy.8, Kondrashin, (?)

DSCH, Sy.15, Sanderling, Erato _ I

DSCH, Sy.15, Kondrashin, Dresden, Profil


Stravinsky


Stravinsky: Rite of the Spring, Lenny, Sony (1958)

Stravinsky: Rite of the Spring, Gergiev, Philips

Stravinsky: Rite of the Spring, Stravinsky, either of his own _ III

Stravinsky, Firebird, Boulez, DG _ II


Tchaikovsky & Rachmaninoff


Tchaikovsky, PC1, Horowitz/Toscanini, RCA

Tchaikovsky, Sys. 4-6, Mravinsky, DG _ IIIII

Tchaikovsky: Manfred Symphony, Toscanini, RCA _ I

Tchaikovsky/Rachmaninoff, PC 1 & 2, Argerich, Philips _ I

Tchaikovsky PC 1, Rachmaninoff PC 2; Cliburn, Kondrashin/Reiner _ I

Rachmaninov Vespers, Sweschnikow (EuroDisc) _ II

Rachmaninoff/Stokowski, 2nd PC, RCA

Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto 2, Richter, DG _ III

Rachmaninov: Piano Concerto, Byron Janis #3 RCA _ I


Verdi & Wagner


Verdi, Otello, Domingo et al., Maazel, EMI _ I

Verdi, Traviata, Gheorghiu, Solti, Decca

Verdi, Rigoletto (Giulini) _ I

Verdi, Falstaff, Toscanini, RCA _ I

Wagner, T&I, Furtwangler, EMI _ II

Wagner, Ring, Solti, Decca_ IIIII BOX


Other


Yonder Came A Courteous Knight, Ravenscroft, by the Pro Cantione Antiqua _ I

Victoria The Victoria Collection, Christophers (Coro)  _ I

North German organ music, Leonhardt (Sony/Vivarte) _ I

Buxtehude complete organ works, Harald Vogel (MDG) _ I

Vivaldi Four Seasons, Marrinner, Decca _ I

Scarlatti, Sonatas, Pletnev, Virgin _ I

The Scarlatti Sonatas, Scott Ross, Erato BOX - 2

Händel Water Music & Music For The Royal Fireworks, Gardiner (Philips) _ I

Hummel/Piano Concertos 2&3 Hough _ I

Mendelssohn/Schumann Piano Trios, Cortot/Thibaud/Casals, EMI

Liszt: Sonata in B minor, Krystian Zimerman, DG _ I

Chopin Vladimir Tropp plays Chopin [a.o. Sonata no. 2] (Denon) _ I (bit obscure?)

Chopin Waltzes, Lipatti, EMI _ I

Berlioz, Symphonie Fantastique, Colin Davis, LSO _ I

Berlioz, Les Troyens, Davis, Philips _ I

Berlioz, Les Troyens, Davis, LSO Live

Dvorak, Sys, 8 & 9, Kubelik, DG _ I

Offenbach: Entre Nous _ I

Puccini, Tosca, Callas, de Sabata, EMI _ II

Faure: Requiem, Pavane . Durufle: Requiem, Philip Ledger, EMI _ I

Elgar, Cello Concerto, J.d.Pre, LSO, Barbirolli, EMI _ III

Holst Military Suites for Band/Fennel _ I

Holst, Planets, Boult, EMI _ I

Ravel, Daphnis & Chloe, Monteux, Decca _ I

Ravel/Debussy, Quartetto Italiano, Philips _ II

Debussy - Pelleas et Melisande, Roger Desormiere, EMI _ I

Schoenberg: Pierre Boulez, Gurrelieder, Columbia _ I

Schoenberg: Kubelik, Gurrelieder, DG _ I

Berg, Lulu, Boulez, DG _ I

Janacek, Katia Kabanova, Mackerras, Decca _ I

Janacek, Makropoulos, Mackerras, Decca _ I

Strauss, Four Last Songs, Schwarzkopf (OTTO or Szell?), EMI _ III

Bartok Cto. for Orchestra, Reiner, RCA _ I

Bartok PCs, Anda, Fricsay, DG _ II

Messiaen, Turangalila, Wit, Naxos

Glass, 20 Piano Etudes, Batagov, Orange Mountain.  _ I

Philip Glass, Einstein on the Beach, CBS

L. Andriessen, De Staat (De Leeuw) _ I

Gorecki, Third Symphony, Upshaw/Zinam, Nonesuch _ I

Paert, Tabula Rasa, ECM _ IIII

Adams, Shaker Loops, Alsop, Naxos

Boulez, Repons, DG

Swing, Swing, Swing the 1938 broadcast _ I

The Three Tenors in Concert, Decca





Great! Whittling down the Bruckner section has gotten rid of two entries and added two more.  Keep voting for more clarity!

Let's try another poll: SECOND POLL to whittle DOWN the list: Please come vote early and often! <MISC. RECORDINGS>

[André]

Why eliminate Keilberth's Bruckner 6 ?? ??

[SurprisedByBeauty]

Why eliminate Keilberth's Bruckner 6 ?? ??

Because it got just 2 votes in the sub-poll that wanted to narrow down the Bruckner recording candidates. Vox populi, sorry!
(Also: Out-of-printness is never a good sign for something that wants to have claims on being TGREM.)

[André]

It's NEVER been out of print.

[SurprisedByBeauty]

It's NEVER been out of print.

In Japan? In a box? I can't find a copy for a reasonable price. It seems quite obscure. We're talking about the Berlin Phil. 6th, right?

[André]

Exactly. Available both singly and as a box (EMI Icon) on Amazon. I first bought it as an lp, then as a cd. And I've always seen it available, never oop. But it's your game, so...

[SurprisedByBeauty]

In Japan? In a box? I can't find a copy for a reasonable price. It seems quite obscure. We're talking about the Berlin Phil. 6th, right?

Exactly. Available both singly and as a box (EMI Icon) on Amazon. I first bought it as an lp, then as a cd. And I've always seen it available, never oop. But it's your game, so...

Could you send me in the direction of a (non-Japanese) in-print copy? I'm interested... but have only found imports or oop editions. :-( And I don't do box-sets, so the Icon edition is out of the question for me.)
(In any case, this didn't make the cut because of insufficient votes in the poll, not because of oop/ip status.)

A great record's merits don't depend on their availability as 'new' on Amazon. Most of my purchases are from the used market. They were new at one point and I wasn't there to buy them at the time. So what ? What you buy new today will be oop next year. Does it become less valuable ?? I'm puzzled...

Forget "greatness"; that gets in the way. But a popular recording is never out of print. I don't think there was any time where HvK's Beethoven Cycle wasn't in print, for example. Or Kleiber's 5th. Or perhaps even Casals' Bach. It's just an indicator of sales and/or importance the record companies bestow upon a release (though that's really only relating to sales, too, wouldn't it.)

Have you never heard of the phrase, in a review, for example, that interpretation XYZ "was never out of print" - as a sort of batch of honor?

On a practical matter: the secondary market, before Amazon was so popular, used to be much harder to access, so out-of-printness had much more meaning as to whether you could get your hands on something or not. Nowadays, it's much less meaningful; it might be available online or, as we've pointed out, on the secondary market.

I have the feeling you sense that I am in some way trying to be antagonistic... I'm not.