The Greatest Recording Ever Made: Nominations for the Poll

[mc ukrneal]

An example would be a recording which changed the way that people listened to Esaias Reusner.

I agree with what you're getting at, if the concept has any value it has to be along the lines you're suggesting and has nothing to do with this sort of way of thinking

So for example, I've never "connected to" Toscanini's NBC Beethoven but his way of playing the music was such an important influence historically (Toscanini, I would say, is the origin of the ideas of Klemperer, Boulez . . . ) that I think it's probably a contender.

I love Toscanini. But I wouldn't include his Beethoven either. He did better things.

But I think the problem for both of these particular conductors is that they have a group of people that adore him (can do no wrong) or hate him (to the point of irrationality). Thus, it can be hard to judge them. That said, both had an enormous influence on their contemporaries and those who came after. And not including them (or a performance of theirs) will not change that.

Then there is the issue that these (and some others) are associated with or caught up with emotionally resonant events. And this can help us give greater weight to their performances. I suppose it is perfectly normal but that does not mean that we cannot re-assess their virtues as time moves away from those events. Personally, I would try to divest them from those events, but again, others may disagree and say that the event (or association) and the performance are intertwined and that part of what makes it great is the very emotion of it.

[Baron Scarpia]

So for example, I've never "connected to" Toscanini's NBC Beethoven but his way of playing the music was such an important influence historically (Toscanini, I would say, is the origin of the ideas of Klemperer, Boulez . . . ) that I think it's probably a contender.

Toscanini would be a good choice.

[Baron Scarpia]

Then there is the issue that these (and some others) are associated with or caught up with emotionally resonant events. And this can help us give greater weight to their performances. I suppose it is perfectly normal but that does not mean that we cannot re-assess their virtues as time moves away from those events. Personally, I would try to divest them from those events, but again, others may disagree and say that the event (or association) and the performance are intertwined and that part of what makes it great is the very emotion of it.

It is not performance, it is recording. After Toscanini recorded Beethoven millions of people who had never heard it before heard it, or heard it a new way. After Casals recorded Bach's suites, music which was utterly obscure became widely known. This should not be about who got the tempo just right in the andante. It should be about what classical recording had the biggest impact on the world. Aren't you tired of endlessly fussing about what recording got this or that little detail right?

[Mandryka]

I love Toscanini. But I wouldn't include his Beethoven either. He did better things.

But I think the problem for both of these particular conductors is that they have a group of people that adore him (can do no wrong) or hate him (to the point of irrationality). Thus, it can be hard to judge them. That said, both had an enormous influence on their contemporaries and those who came after. And not including them (or a performance of theirs) will not change that.

Then there is the issue that these (and some others) are associated with or caught up with emotionally resonant events. And this can help us give greater weight to their performances. I suppose it is perfectly normal but that does not mean that we cannot re-assess their virtues as time moves away from those events. Personally, I would try to divest them from those events, but again, others may disagree and say that the event (or association) and the performance are intertwined and that part of what makes it great is the very emotion of it.

My point was though that like him or not, love him or hate him, Toscanini invented a way of reading the score which was very influential in the C20.  That makes what he did great.

Similarly for Gould's Goldbergs  -- more so.

[Mandryka]

It is not performance, it is recording. After Toscanini recorded Beethoven millions of people who had never heard it before heard it. After Casals recorded Bach's suites, music which was utterly obscure became widely known. This should not be about who got the tempo just write in the andante. It should be about what classical recording had the biggest impact on the world. Aren't you tired of endlessly fussing about what recording got this or that little detail right?

I agree with you here.

[mc ukrneal]

It is not performance, it is recording. After Toscanini recorded Beethoven millions of people who had never heard it before heard it. After Casals recorded Bach's suites, music which was utterly obscure became widely known. This should not be about who got the tempo just write in the andante. It should be about what classical recording had the biggest impact on the world. Aren't you tired of endlessly fussing about what recording got this or that little detail right?

That would not be my criteria, which I guess is now obvious. But isn't that what this thread is revealing about all of us - we apply different criteria.

[Baron Scarpia]

It is up to the thread originator to set the criteria, I suppose. That's how I interpreted it.

[Mahlerian]

Some versions get detractors or defenders and this can influence a reputation quite significantly (not to mention the lifelong attempts at this of some artists, whose influence is still felt today). Some recent threads highlight that idea quite well, especially when they do everything to convince listeners of its good/bad qualities.

You're talking about my discussion of Karajan's Mahler?  I tried to shy away from evaluating the recording as good or bad.  I merely wanted to show how it was not an accurate representation of what Mahler wrote.  That's how the discussion started and I tried to keep it as objective as possible.

Also, I'd be interested in what ways you think my own impression of Karajan was influenced by others.

[SurprisedByBeauty]

OK: Top of PAGE FOUR is as good a reason as any to give this exercise a new impulse.  edit: holy mackerell -- 11 new posts since I started on this.

Everyone gets to nominate 10 Recordings off the list or add their own. Whatever you think "great" is. Most meaningful. Changed recording history. Changed listening-history. Changed MY life. Sounds best. Greatest performance of most important work at the time...

I have underlined some that might be conventionally/historically be seen as "great".... or whichever release has so far gotten at least three votes.





Kreisler/Blech, LvB Violin Concerto, EMI

Mendelssohn/Schumann Piano Trios, Cortot/Thibaud/Casals, EMI

Rachmaninoff/Stokowski, 2nd PC, RCA

Schabel, Beethoven Sonatas, EMI _ II BOX

Mahler 9, Walter, VPh, EMI _ I

Bach, Casals Cello Suites, EMI _ I

Tchaik, PC1, Horowitz/Toscanini, RCA

Toscanini, LvB Symphonies, RCA BOX

Toscanini, LvB7 NYP, RCA _ I

Toscanini, Falstaff, RCA _ I

Chopin Waltzes, Lipatti, EMI _ I

Wagner, T&I, Furtwangler, EMI _ II

Puccini, Tosca, Callas, de Sabata, EMI _ II

Brahms, PC 1, Rubinstein, Reiner, RCA

Bach Goldberg Variations, Gould, Columbia _ III

Mozart, Figaro, E.Kleiber, Decca _ III

Bartok Cto. for Orchestra, Reiner, RCA _ I

Tchaik, Sys. 4-6, Mravinsky, DG _ IIIII

Ravel, Daphnis & Chloe, Monteux, Decca _ I

DSCH, VC & CC, Oistrahk, Rostropovich, CBS _ I

Schubert, Death & Maiden, Amadeus Quartet, DG _ I

Bartok PCs, Anda, Fricsay, DG _ II

Bach, Matthew Passion, Klemperer, EMI _ I

Prokofiev Piano Sonata 8 et al, S.Richter, DG

Elgar, Cello Concerto, J.d.Pre, LSO, Barbirolli, EMI _ III

Wagner, Ring, Solti, Decca_ IIIII BOX

Mahler, LvdE, Ludwig, Wunderlich, Klemperer, EMI _ III

Mahler, Sy.4th, Szell, CBS

Strauss, Four Last Songs, Schwarzkopf (OTTO or Szell?), EMI _ III

Vivaldi Four Seasons, Marrinner, Decca _ I

Bach, Orchestral Suites, Harnoncourt, Teldec

Dvorak, Sys, 8 & 9, Kubelik, DG _ I

Schubert, Schoene Muellerin, Fischer-Dieskau, Moore, EMI

Schubert, Winterreise, Fischer-Dieskau, Demus, DG _ II

Bach, S&P, Milstein, DG _ I

Beethoven, Symphonies 5 & 7, Carlos Kleiber, DG _ II

Janacek, Katia Kabanova, Mackerras, Decca _ I

Janacek, Makropoulos, Mackerras, Decca _ I

Britten, Peter Grimes, Britten-Pears et al., Decca _ I

Britten, Peter Grimes, Davis, Vickers, Philips _ I

Berlioz, Les Troyens, Davis, Philips _ I

Berlioz, Les Troyens, Davis, LSO Live

Holst, Planets, Boult, EMI _ I

Berg, Lulu, Boulez, DG _ I

Mahler, 10th, Rattle, CBSO, EMI _ II

Mozart, Horn Concertos, Brian, EMI _ III

Mozart, Clarinet Concerto, Pay/Hogwood, Decca

Bach, Mass in B Minor, Gardiner, Archiv _ III

Verdi, Otello, Domingo et al., Maazel, EMI _ I

Paert, Tabula Rasa, ECM _ IIII

Bruckner 7, Vienna, Karajan, DG _ III

The Three Tenors in Concert, Decca

Gorecki, Third Symphony, Upshaw/Zinam, Nonesuch _ I

Verdi, Traviata, Gheorghiu, Solti, Decca

Beethoven Symphonies (alternatively: Eroica), Karajan, 1963, DG _ I (BOX)

Beethoven, String Quartets, Busch Quartet, HMV/EMI/Warner

Schubert String Quintet, Prades (Casals/Tortelier)

Beethoven Symphonies, Zinman, Tonhalle, Arte Nova _ -1

Mahler 1, Kubelik, BRSO, DG _ II

Strav.: Rite of the Spring, Lenny, Sony (1958)

Strav.: Rite of the Spring, Gergiev, Philips

Strav.: Rite of the Spring, Stravinsky, either of his own _ III

Berlioz, Symphonie Fantastique, Colin Davis, LSO _ I

DSCH, Sy.15, Sanderling, Erato _ I

DSCH, Sy.15, Kondrashin, Dresden, Profil

Bach, Concertos italiaens, Tharaud, Harmonia Mundi _ II

Scarlatti, Sonatas, Pletnev, Virgin _ I

Philip Glass, Einstein on the Beach, CBS

Adams, Shaker Loops, Alsop, Naxos

Messiaen, Turangalila, Wit, Naxos

Brahms Piano Concertos, Gilels/Jochum, DG _ II

Brahms Piano Concertos, Fleisher/Szell, Sony _ I

Beethoven Piano Sonatas, Backhaus II, Decca _ I BOX

Stravinsky, Firebird, Boulez, DG _ II

Schoenberg: Pierre Boulez, Gurrelieder, Columbia _ I

Bruckner: Eugen Jochum, Symphony #7 / Complete Bruckner Symphonies, DG _ I

Tchaikovsky: Manfred Symphony, Toscanini, RCA _ I

Sibelius, Akeo Watanabe, Complete Symphonies, Epic _ I

Tchaik/Rachmaninoff, PC 1 & 2, Argerich, Philips _ I

Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto 2, Richter, DG _ II

Mahler, Das Knaben Wunderhorn, Szell, EMI _ I

Brahms Symphony 4, Kleiber, DG _ I

Yonder Came A Courteous Knight, Ravenscroft, by the Pro Cantione Antiqua _ I

Swing, Swing, Swing the 1938 broadcast _ I

Bach, GVs, Leonhardt, 1978, DHM _ I

Sibelius, Sy.No7, HvK, DG _ I

Rachmaninov: Piano Concerto, Byron Janis #3 RCA _ I

Tchaikovsky PC 1, Rachmaninoff PC 2; Cliburn, Kondrashin/Reiner

Hummel/Piano Concertos 2&3 Hough _ I

Mozart Mass in C minor/Leppard _ I

Offenbach: Entre Nous _ I

Holst Military Suites for Band/Fennel _ I

Victoria The Victoria Collection, Christophers (Coro)  _ I

North German organ music, Leonhardt (Sony/Vivarte) _ I

Buxtehude complete organ works, Harald Vogel (MDG) _ I

Bach Das wohltemperierte Clavier, Gilbert (DG/Archiv) _ I

Bach Brandenburg Concertos, Goebel (DG/Archiv) _ I

Bach Matthäus Passion, Leonhardt (Harmonia Mundi) _ I

Bach Matthäus Passion, Harnoncourt III (Harmonia Mundi) _ I

Bach organ works, Kooiman (Coronata) _ I

Bach Die Kunst der Fuge [organ] Rogg (EMI) _ I

Händel Water Music & Music For The Royal Fireworks, Gardiner (Philips) _ I

Mozart symphonies, Hogwood (Decca/l'Oiseau Lyre) _ I BOX

Mozart Figaro, Solti (Decca) _ I

Mozart Così, Klemperer (EMI) _ I

Mozart Zauberflöte, Klemperer (EMI) _ I

Schubert Complete Symphonies Immerseel (Columbia/Zig Zag) _ I BOX

Chopin Vladimir Tropp plays Chopin [a.o. Sonata no. 2] (Denon) _ I

Verdi, Rigoletto (Giulini) _ I

Mahler 2, Stokowski (RCA) _ I

Mahler 6, Barbirolli (EMI) _ I

Rachmaninov Vespers, Sweschnikow (EuroDisc) _ II

L. Andriessen, De Staat (De Leeuw) _ I

Beethoven Symphony No 3 'Eroica' E Kleiber/VPO _ I

Schoenberg: Kubelik, Gurrelieder, DG _ I

The Scarlatti Sonatas, Scott Ross, Erato BOX - 2

Bach Matthäus Passion, Mogens Wöldike (Vanguard/The Bach Guild)

Bach Goldberg Variations, Xhu Xiao-Mei (Mirare)

Beethoven Eroica symphony, Furtwängler, WP 1943 (EMI)

Beethoven Eroica Symphony, Monteux, Concertgebouw Orchestra (Philips/Decca)

Beethoven Pastoral symphony: Walter, Columbia Symphony (Sony)

Beethoven Missa Solemnis: Bernstein,  Concertgebouw (DGG)

Brahms symphony no 2: Abbado, BP (1969) (DGG)

Brahms symphony no 3: Walter, Columbia Symphony (Sony)

Bruckner: symphony no 5: Klemperer, New Philharmonia (EMI)

Bruckner: symphony no 6: Keilberth, BP (Teldec)

Bruckner: symphony no 8: Böhm, WP (DGG)

Liszt: Sonata in B minor, Krystian Zimerman, DG _ I

Faure: Requiem, Pavane . Durufle: Requiem, Philip Ledger, EMI _ I

Glass, 20 Piano Etudes, Batagov, Orange Mountain.  _ I

Britten, War Requiem, Britten, Decca. _ I

Ravel/Debussy, Quartetto Italiano, Philips _ II

That would not be my criteria, which I guess is now obvious. But isn't that what this thread is revealing about all of us - we apply different criteria.

Exactly!    ♥ ♥ ♥

[André]

Very interesting comments from everybody. I think we're advancing  .

A list of « best ever » arrived at consensually will automatically discard niche works or composers, for the simple reason that most people have never heard them, or would not consider repeating the experience. We'll then be « stuck » with a list of the same old usual suspects. Well, I think they still deserve their day at court, or their 15 minutes of fame, or whatever you choose to call it.

In that respect, I've restricted myself to « the 4 B », « the 5 S », and intend next to go for « the 4 M » (and no, that won't include Magnard, Milhaud, Massenet  or even Martinu - sorry John ). They will be composers everybody listens to at least once in a while. Even with that selective a list, it will be easy to get to 100.

NB: I left out Berlioz from the « B » selection. They should be 5, not 4. My bad. I'll rectify that eventually

[North Star]

« the 4 M » (and no, that won't include Magnard, Milhaud, Massenet  or even Martinu - sorry John ).

Martin, Messiaen, Mompou & Mussorgsky?

[Mirror Image]

I have nothing meaningful I could add to this thread as I never bought into the whole concept of what's the 'greatest', because, even with this kind of thinking, it'll end up boiling down to subjectivity, so I could pick favorite individual recordings, but don't really think any of them would be on anyone's short list of 'greatest recordings'. I don't really listen to the 'mainstream' composers like Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Brahms, etc., so this alone probably puts me in the minority.

[SurprisedByBeauty]

I have nothing meaningful I could add to this thread as I never bought into the whole concept of what's the 'greatest', because, even with this kind of thinking, it'll end up boiling down to subjectivity, so I could pick favorite individual recordings, but don't really think any of them would be on anyone's short list of 'greatest recordings'. I don't really listen to the 'mainstream' composers like Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Brahms, etc., so this alone probably puts me in the minority.

Oh, you're doing fine with the Debussy-listening and championing Jacobs' as one of the great recordings of his music. You belong here more than you might think. In any case I hope you are not feeling unwelcome. Even those who don't like to buy into the "Greatest" thing (though we all kind of have our own idea of what it might be) may participate here.

Talking of Debussy - what of the Quartetto Italiano Debussy/Ravel quartets coupling?  Up there, I think.

Well your comments prompted me to buy a copy - I don't like that symphony very much and so I figured a 'wrong' recording might be just what I needed - I had a listen last night, and yes, that worked. 

My nominations -
DSCH, Cello Concerto, Rostropovich/Ormandy CBS.  Premiere recording, and still not been bettered.  ***
Glass, 20 Piano Etudes, Batagov, Orange Mountain.  A live recording of a recital given in Moscow in celebration of the composer's 80th birthday.
Britten, War Requiem, Britten, Decca.  Premiere recording featuring the three soloists (one English, one German, one Russian) it was written for.

*** I see you've already got this listed, but as a strange coupling - two separate recordings surely.

It is a fairly common CD-age coupling. I wouldn't want to list it seperately and have copies cannibalize each other. But yes, the coupling issue is tricky. Is the original the great recording or did it attain that status as a CD or re-issue...

[aukhawk]

Talking of Debussy - what of the Quartetto Italiano Debussy/Ravel quartets coupling?  Up there, I think.

You're talking about my discussion of Karajan's Mahler?  I tried to shy away from evaluating the recording as good or bad.  I merely wanted to show how it was not an accurate representation of what Mahler wrote.  That's how the discussion started and I tried to keep it as objective as possible.

Well your comments prompted me to buy a copy - I don't like that symphony very much and so I figured a 'wrong' recording might be just what I needed - I had a listen last night, and yes, that worked. 

My nominations -
DSCH, Cello Concerto, Rostropovich/Ormandy CBS.  Premiere recording, and still not been bettered.  ***
Glass, 20 Piano Etudes, Batagov, Orange Mountain.  A live recording of a recital given in Moscow in celebration of the composer's 80th birthday.
Britten, War Requiem, Britten, Decca.  Premiere recording featuring the three soloists (one English, one German, one Russian) it was written for.

*** I see you've already got this listed, but as a strange coupling - two separate recordings surely.

[Mahlerian]

Well your comments prompted me to buy a copy - I don't like that symphony very much and so I figured a 'wrong' recording might be just what I needed - I had a listen last night, and yes, that worked. 

I've long thought of it as Mahler's Sixth for people who don't like Mahler's Sixth.  If that's your thing, go for it, and I have no intention of saying you can't enjoy it all you want, but just realize that it's not the music Mahler wrote.

[Baron Scarpia]

I've long thought of it as Mahler's Sixth for people who don't like Mahler's Sixth.  If that's your thing, go for it, and I have no intention of saying you can't enjoy it all you want, but just realize that it's not the music Mahler wrote.

It's better! 

[Mahlerian]

It's better! 

Please go into that thread and explain how his changes to the score improve the work, then.

[Baron Scarpia]

Please go into that thread and explain how his changes to the score improve the work, then.

There is this concept, called a joke.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke

[Mahlerian]

There is this concept, called a joke.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke

Yes, there is.  And I didn't expect you to detail why Karajan's Sixth is better than Mahler's score...it's called a retort.

[San Antone]

It's better! 

Since there are an infinite number of varieties of combing articulation, dynamics, phrasing and tempo gradations - the composer's indications are just one way to play the music.  Mahlerian is saying that Mahler's interpretation of his score is the primary one to consider and carries more weight than any other's.  But the bottom line is that a conductor is an artist as well, has every right to hear the music as he thinks it should go, and perform it that way.

I've said before that the performer and composer stand on equal footing regarding any piece of music:  The performer has nothing to play without the composer's creation, but the composer has nothing but a silent score without the performer.

TD:

Rach II, Richter, Karajan (DG)