A question about ripping classical music to my harddrive

[Gurn Blanston]

Generally, the catalog number or opus number will be the last thing on a name....

Yes, this is a common convention. The reason I don't use it is to accommodate the behavior of Windows' file system. For example, if you say "String Quartet in F..."  then String Quartet in A..." Windows will reverse them when you burn them to a CD because A comes before F. Or even if you just put all of Op 18 in one folder. It will arrange them and write them according to how its file system works, IOW, 1, 10, 11, 2, 3 &c followed by A, B, C &c. By using the Op # as a tool to help you to force the files into the order you want them in, you help yourself out in the long run.

[beclemund]

Yes, this is a common convention. The reason I don't use it is to accommodate the behavior of Windows' file system. For example, if you say "String Quartet in F..."  then String Quartet in A..." Windows will reverse them when you burn them to a CD because A comes before F. Or even if you just put all of Op 18 in one folder. It will arrange them and write them according to how its file system works, IOW, 1, 10, 11, 2, 3 &c followed by A, B, C &c. By using the Op # as a tool to help you to force the files into the order you want them in, you help yourself out in the long run.

I can see that being a problem. I organize everything by track number first so I have not run into that issue.

[Gurn Blanston]

I can see that being a problem. I organize everything by track number first so I have not run into that issue.

Hmm, interesting idea. I'll see how I can make that work for me. When I first realized this problem, and hadn't come up with an easy fix, I used to append a 3 digit number in front on the filename. Not in the tag, just in the filename. It works, but it is much less elegant and just plain ugly.   

[beclemund]

Well, there is a track tag. What program do you use to manage your library? You can probably get it to automatically append a track number in front of your file name... depending on the proggy. iTunes can do it (but with two digit track numbers only not three).

[mahlertitan]

Generally, the catalog number or opus number will be the last thing on a name.

So something to the effect of:

String quartet no. 1 in F major, op. 18: i. Allegro con brio
String quartet no. 1 in F major, op. 18: ii. Adagio affettuoso ed appassionato
String quartet no. 1 in F major, op. 18: iii. Scherzo. Allegro molto
String quartet no. 1 in F major, op. 18: iv. Allegro

Since op. 18 includes SQ 1-6 you could also indicate the number after the opus number...

String quartet no. 1 in F major, op. 18, no. 1: i. Allegro con brio

Tho' it seems a little redundant. Some use a slash... so op. 18/1, but that can be tricky with some programs that convert titles to track names as Windows will have problems with putting a slash in there... Some apps will transform it to an underscore to solve that problem, but you never know.

Where it gets tricky is nicknames, editions, etc...

String quartet no. 10 in E-flat major, op. 74 ('Harp'): i. Poco adagio; Allegro

some place the nickname before the catalog or opus number...

String quartet no. 10 in E-flat major ('Harp'), op. 74: i. Poco adagio; Allegro

The important thing is to construct them in a way that is sensible to you. It is, after all, your collection, so your opinion is the one that matters.

i don't think windows allows semicolons.

[Holden]

I use Feurio for my ripping and I rarely have this problem. However, I don't rip to MP3 and haven't tried it with Feurio but I assume that it works. Strangely, I've usually found the cddb from WMP to be very accurate.

[beclemund]

i don't think windows allows semicolons.

You are right, it does not allow colons (semicolons it does)... iTunes subs an underscore for that as well in track and folder names, so there is another obstacle.

[Gurn Blanston]

You are right, it does not allow colons (semicolons it does)... iTunes subs an underscore for that as well in track and folder names, so there is another obstacle.

I just use a hyphen, space hyphen space 

Convenient workaround, looks and works OK.

[mahlertitan]

I just use a hyphen, space hyphen space 

Convenient workaround, looks and works OK.

yep, that exactly what i do. Having a program like Mediamonkey also helps, it has a very useful feature "Auto-Organzie files" where you can simultaneously edit multiple files at once for instance:

when you rip your music off the CD,
it often appears to be like this
01. Symphony No.1 - move 1
01. Symphony no.3 - move 1
02. Symphony No.1 - move 2
03. Symphony No.1 - move 3
04. Symphony No.1 - move 4
05. Symphony no.2 - move 1
06. Symphony no.2 - move 2
07. Symphony no.2 - move 3
08. Symphony no.2 - move 4


this is very annoying, since if you want to put all of mahler's symphonies in one folder (say all of them belong to the Inbal cycle , you are going to have to edit every single track # there (01,02,03) this is tedious, and pointless work. With "Auto-Organize file function, i can simply say that i wish the title of each track to appear as the filename, so in this case it becomes this:

Symphony No.1 - move 1
Symphony No.1 - move 2
Symphony No.1 - move 3
Symphony No.1 - move 4
Symphony no.2 - move 1
Symphony no.2 - move 2
Symphony no.2 - move 3
Symphony no.2 - move 4
Symphony no.3 - move 1

much more organized, and now you can put all of them in one folder, so it will be easy to sort through.


Another interesting function of Mediamonkey is its "Auto tag from Amazon" function, often times, you are going to encounter digital files with incomplete information, for instance, you want your artist to say "conductor, orchestra", but sometimes they come in saying "gustav mahler or the name of the composer instead" or you ripped off the CD without any info attached, what to do?
well, you use the "auto-tag from Amazon" function, it allows you to copy info directly off the amazon database, that includes album, album artist, album cover, date, recording company, individual track names, so you don't have to do it all by yourself!

[LapsangS]

You guys need Apple iTunes

[mahlertitan]

You guys need Apple iTunes

we HAVE Itunes! But, it is not compatible with APE, FLAC!

[Gurn Blanston]

we HAVE Itunes! But, it is not compatible with APE, FLAC!

Plus, I personally found it to be a pain in the ass, but hey, that's just me. Thanks for the tip about MediaMonkey. I am testing it as a tagging program right now. I am very satisfied with WinAmp for everything else, but the tagging aspect is less than stellar.

[wtf]

What the dickens is ape? I hate all that stuff. All I want is mp3s. Is that so wrong?

[mahlertitan]

What the dickens is ape? I hate all that stuff. All I want is mp3s. Is that so wrong?

APE is for people who appreciate higher quality sound, if you are satisfied with 128 or 192 kbps, then obviously you don't need to know what ape/flac is.

[Gurn Blanston]

What the dickens is ape? I hate all that stuff. All I want is mp3s. Is that so wrong?

If I understand correctly, it is yet another form of lossless compression, like flac. I don't know, I use flac, but not ape, so I way be wrong. Flac is cool, it lets you store in about ¹/₂ the size of WAV, but it doesn't lose any info. And Winamp will play it in its native format. But when you want to make MP3's to download or burn, you just convert (keeps the flac, makes a MP3). So it is versatile. My guess is that ape is similar.

[KevinP]

I rip using EAC and would never use anything else, certainly nothing Microsoft supplies. If this goes to my .mp3 player, it's like this. Say it's Richter's recording of Bach's cantata #61.

FOLDER NAME: Classical (there are also blues, jazz and other folders)
FOLDER NAME: 02-Baroque (01- is 'Early'--just my preference to lump them all together but separate baroque. The numbering is to keep eras in chronological order rather than alphabetical.)
FOLDER NAME: Bach
FOLDER NAME: Cantatas
FOLDER NAME: 61
FOLDER NAME: Richter
And then the files, which I prefer to renumber as 1-, 2-, 3-, etc, rather than whatever their original track number was on the CD (13-, 14-, etc.)

In smaller cycle works where I keep the entire cycle on the disc, and partiularly if I keep other renditions of it,  I may move the interpreter up a rung, so the second Brandenburg would be: Classical-->Baroque-->Bach-->Brandenburgs-->Alessandrini-->2.

I never use tags nor saw the need for them, nor have I used the library function, nor saw the need for it.

[mahlertitan]

If I understand correctly, it is yet another form of lossless compression, like flac. I don't know, I use flac, but not ape, so I way be wrong. Flac is cool, it lets you store in about ¹/₂ the size of WAV, but it doesn't lose any info. And Winamp will play it in its native format. But when you want to make MP3's to download or burn, you just convert (keeps the flac, makes a MP3). So it is versatile. My guess is that ape is similar.

A big problem with APE is that it is impossible for people to attach album art.

[DavidW]

The problem is all database.  Id3 tags were meant for popular music, and not classical.  The cddb is not even consistent in how it deals with classical music, same goes for freedb.  But imo it's still better than writing the tags yourself.

The problem is not the software, you would and do get the same experience with any other program and tagging.  I've used wmp, eac, itunes, k3b, atrac, musicmatch, and winamp and they all have the same problem with that tagging because it's really about the database.

The hard answer is just accept it or dyi.

[Lethevich]

If I understand correctly, it is yet another form of lossless compression, like flac. I don't know, I use flac, but not ape, so I way be wrong. Flac is cool, it lets you store in about ¹/₂ the size of WAV, but it doesn't lose any info. And Winamp will play it in its native format. But when you want to make MP3's to download or burn, you just convert (keeps the flac, makes a MP3). So it is versatile. My guess is that ape is similar.

I prefer flac as it's a widespread format. The difference with ape is that it compresses SLIGHTLY better. It's like mp3/ogg (but even less of a difference).

The problem is all database.  Id3 tags were meant for popular music, and not classical.  The cddb is not even consistent in how it deals with classical music, same goes for freedb.  But imo it's still better than writing the tags yourself.

Hehehe... an obsessive control freak like me could never not type it in themselves each time, even if the tags are almost uniform - GOD FORBID if a file looks like A instead of B

A: 01 - Symphony No.1, Op.9 in D minor - 1 - Adagio - Allegro
B: 01 - Symphony No.1 in D minor, Op.9 - I. Adagio - Allegro

[DavidW]

I prefer flac as it's a widespread format. The difference with ape is that it compresses SLIGHTLY better. It's like mp3/ogg vorbis (but even less of a difference).

Fixed that for you. (ogg is just a container)