Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)

[Dima]

The last recording of Caprice russe for piano and orchestra of Anton
Rubinshtein with with Neeme Jarvi and Anna Shelest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0UiHgUHn3k
It's very russian and beautiful composition (and some fragments Rachmaninov took to his concertos). This composition has very
modern orchestration and it's fantastic sounds reminds me Totentanz of Liszt.

[Hattoff]

Very nice. I've not heard this before. Thank you very much.

[Irons]

I know of Anton Rubinstein through his chamber works which are okay but nothing special, although I will revisit. He seems to be an unfashionable composer. Lauded in his own day but largely forgotten. I was not expecting too much from his 5th Symphony "The Russian" but as events turned out it was of greater interest then I thought. A late recording (1988) is one of the cleanest Melodiya LPs I have heard with Valentin Zverev conducting USSR TV & Radio SO. The 5th is a curates egg of a symphony. His symphonies are often (too often) accused of not going anywhere, I don't know about that, but the same could be said about Bax et al. The first movement I thought arresting with typically Russian themes. But the best bit by far is the Allegro non troppo second movement. If nothing else do listen to this movement as it is a delight. Unfortunately from there on in it is downhill, the third movement is all right but I rapidly lost interest during the finale - all ten minutes of it. Not a great symphony which is flawed but I will definitely listen again which is a recommendation of sorts.

[Mirror Image]

I know of Anton Rubinstein through his chamber works which are okay but nothing special, although I will revisit. He seems to be an unfashionable composer. Lauded in his own day but largely forgotten. I was not expecting too much from his 5th Symphony "The Russian" but as events turned out it was of greater interest then I thought. A late recording (1988) is one of the cleanest Melodiya LPs I have heard with Valentin Zverev conducting USSR TV & Radio SO. The 5th is a curates egg of a symphony. His symphonies are often (too often) accused of not going anywhere, I don't know about that, but the same could be said about Bax et al. The first movement I thought arresting with typically Russian themes. But the best bit by far is the Allegro non troppo second movement. If nothing else do listen to this movement as it is a delight. Unfortunately from there on in it is downhill, the third movement is all right but I rapidly lost interest during the finale - all ten minutes of it. Not a great symphony which is flawed but I will definitely listen again which is a recommendation of sorts.

Yet there's someone out there that probably worships the composer. Thank goodness I've never met any.

[Irons]

Yet there's someone out there that probably worships the composer. Thank goodness I've never met any.

Come on! He is not that bad.

Second movement here. Not Tchaikovsky but made me smile.   https://youtu.be/eEdh7McTmyY

[Mirror Image]

Come on! He is not that bad.

Second movement here. Not Tchaikovsky but made me smile.   https://youtu.be/eEdh7McTmyY

I'm not going to say anything else that's derogatory. My point has been made.

[Irons]

I'm not going to say anything else that's derogatory. My point has been made.

And you are more then entitled to make it - that what forums are for are they not?

[Mirror Image]

And you are more then entitled to make it - that what forums are for are they not?

This is true, but I probably shouldn't even have said anything, but my point, more or less, is that every lesser-known composer has some dedicated fan somewhere in the world.

[Dima]

It's a pity that mostly critics of Rubinstein write here. I would like to find Rubinstein's fans...

[Mirror Image]

It's a pity that mostly critics of Rubinstein write here. I would like to find Rubinstein's fans...

I think we found a Rubinstein fan! You see, I told you, Irons, that they're out there somewhere.

[Irons]

It's a pity that mostly critics of Rubinstein write here. I would like to find Rubinstein's fans...

I'm always suspicious when a composer or conductor is universally derided especially when the same critique is repeated over and over again. Not posters here who are a knowledgeable lot, but music critics with a herd mentality repeat the same old stuff - and get paid for it. "Klemperer is a plodder" "Suisse Romande is a poor orchestra" etc. The same with Rubinstein "He doesn't develop  themes". All this may have an element of truth but believe me I have heard my fair share of second-rate Russian music and Rubinstein's 5th is not that.

I would be delighted to share a pint with Mirror Image even if he would not be over the moon in meeting me.  

[Dima]

I know of Anton Rubinstein through his chamber works which are okay but nothing special, although I will revisit. He seems to be an unfashionable composer. Lauded in his own day but largely forgotten. I was not expecting too much from his 5th Symphony "The Russian" but as events turned out it was of greater interest then I thought. A late recording (1988) is one of the cleanest Melodiya LPs I have heard with Valentin Zverev conducting USSR TV & Radio SO. The 5th is a curates egg of a symphony. His symphonies are often (too often) accused of not going anywhere, I don't know about that, but the same could be said about Bax et al. The first movement I thought arresting with typically Russian themes. But the best bit by far is the Allegro non troppo second movement. If nothing else do listen to this movement as it is a delight. Unfortunately from there on in it is downhill, the third movement is all right but I rapidly lost interest during the finale - all ten minutes of it. Not a great symphony which is flawed but I will definitely listen again which is a recommendation of sorts.

The melodic of Rubinstein is so close to the style of pop music, for example Beatles. Try to listen to the 3 part of the 5th symphony with Barry Kolman on https://open.spotify.com. In this fragment you can listen song "Yesterday" of Beatles, and then the fragment of the 5th symphony 3 part:
https://cloud.mail.ru/public/CcHv/k7ugHzMR9

The 4th movement is the most powerful, it is based on russian folklore. Try to listen this part with conductor Horia Andreescu also on spotify (on youtube clip is very bad quality of sound).

The second part that you mentioned is based on tatarian folklore and then from the middle appears  russian style theme. It may be symbolic because russians conquered tatars and now russians and tatars live together peacefully.

The first part of the symphony begins with same theme that opens opera Boris Godunov of Mussorgsky. It can be also folklore origin, may be not.
This "Russian" symphony is devoted to great women - Grand Duchess Elena Pavlovna. At the time when the symphony was written she have already died, but Rubinstein was obliged to her because she gave money on opening first conservatory of Russia in Saint-Petersburg. Rubinstein become the founder and the first director of conservatory. Thanks to him we know such names as Tchaikovsky, Prokofiev and Shostakovich who ended this conservatory. In Soviet times Rubinstein was criticized much and this conservatory was named after Rimskiy-Korsakov.

[Ghost of Baron Scarpia]

I'm always suspicious when a composer or conductor is universally derided especially when the same critique is repeated over and over again. Not posters here who are a knowledgeable lot, but music critics with a herd mentality repeat the same old stuff - and get paid for it. "Klemperer is a plodder" "Suisse Romande is a poor orchestra" etc. The same with Rubinstein "He doesn't develop  themes". All this may have an element of truth but believe me I have heard my fair share of second-rate Russian music and Rubinstein's 5th is not that.

I remember reading Rubinstein told Tchaikovsky that his Piano Concerto No 1 was dreck, so he gets points for that in my book.

[Mirror Image]

I would be delighted to share a pint with Mirror Image even if he would not be over the moon in meeting me.  

I don't drink alcohol, but would certainly be great meeting anyone who loves this music as much as I do.

[Dima]

I remember reading Rubinstein told Tchaikovsky that his Piano Concerto No 1 was dreck, so he gets points for that in my book.

It was not Anton Rubinstein... That was Anton's brother - Nikolay Rubinstein (a friend of Tchaikovsky). Tchaikovsky planned to devote his 1st concerto to Nikolay, but after his words he refused and devoted it to Hans von Bulow. But after the death of Nikolay Rubinstein, Tchaikovsky decided to devote his 2nd piano concerto to him. Anton Rubinstein conducted the premiere of 2nd concerto of Tchaikovsky that was devoted to his younger brother.

[Ghost of Baron Scarpia]

It was not Anton Rubinstein... That was Anton's brother - Nikolay Rubinstein (a friend of Tchaikovsky). Tchaikovsky planned to devote his 1st concerto to Nikolay, but after his words he refused and devoted it to Hans von Bulow. But after the death of Nikolay Rubinstein, Tchaikovsky decided to devote his 2nd concerto to him. Anton Rubinstein conducted the premiere of 2nd concerto that was devoted to his younger brother.

[skulks away in shame]

[Irons]

The melodic of Rubinstein is so close to the style of pop music, for example Beatles. Try to listen to the 3 part of the 5th symphony with Barry Kolman on https://open.spotify.com. In this fragment you can listen song "Yesterday" of Beatles, and then the fragment of the 5th symphony 3 part:
https://cloud.mail.ru/public/CcHv/k7ugHzMR9

The 4th movement is the most powerful, it is based on russian folk. Try to listen this part with conductor Horia Andreescu also on spotify (on youtube clip is very bad quality of sound).

The second part that you mentioned is based on tatarian folk and then from the middle appears  russian style theme. It may be symbolic because russians conquered tatars and now russians and tatars live together peacefully.

The first part of the symphony begins with same theme that opens opera Boris Godunov of Mussorgsky. It can be also folk origin, may be not.
This "Russian" symphony is devoted to great women - Grand Duchess Elena Pavlovna. At the time when the symphony was written she have already died, but Rubinstein was obliged to her because she gave money on opening first conservatory of Russia in Saint-Petersburg. Rubinstein become the founder and the first director of conservatory. Thanks to him we know such names as Tchaikovsky, Prokofiev and Shostakovich who ended this conservatory. In Soviet times Rubinstein was criticized much and this conservatory was named after Rimskiy-Korkasov.

Is that right that one Rubinstein brother opened the Saint-Petersburg conservatory and the other the Moscow conservatory?

[Irons]

It was not Anton Rubinstein... That was Anton's brother - Nikolay Rubinstein (a friend of Tchaikovsky). Tchaikovsky planned to devote his 1st concerto to Nikolay, but after his words he refused and devoted it to Hans von Bulow. But after the death of Nikolay Rubinstein, Tchaikovsky decided to devote his 2nd piano concerto to him. Anton Rubinstein conducted the premiere of 2nd concerto of Tchaikovsky that was devoted to his younger brother.

Who Tchaikovsky dedicated his great Piano Trio too. One of his best works IMO.

[Dima]

Is that right that one Rubinstein brother opened the Saint-Petersburg conservatory and the other the Moscow conservatory?

Anton Rubinstein himself opened Saint-Petersburg conservatory it was the first professional music school in Russia  (Tchaikovsky, Prokofiev, Shostakovich ended this conservatory) - now Saint-Petersburg conservatory is named after Rimskiy-Korsakov.
Anton's younger brother Nikolay Rubinstein also a famous musician (pianist and conductor, he wrote only several pieces) opened Moscow conservatory (Rachmaninov, Scriabin ended it) - now Moscow conservatory is named after Tchaikovsky. Brothers Rubinstein make very much for developing music in Russia. If you want to understand the roots of russian music - Anton Rubinstein is the way for that.

[Dima]

Who Tchaikovsky dedicated his great Piano Trio too. One of his best works IMO.

Tchaikovsky wrote Trio and Taneev wrote Requiem (in memory of Nikolay Rubinstein) it is his cantata "John of Damascus".