Sweelinck’s pupils: Scheidemann, Jacob Praetorius, Scheidt, Siefert, Schildt

Started by Mandryka, June 03, 2018, 07:39:03 AM

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bioluminescentsquid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEXFlicyd2c

A very "old-fashioned" recording from the 50's (on a Neo-Baroque Paul Ott organ, no less) of Scheidt's Fortune my foe variations that I found to be very intimate and moving.

Mandryka

Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on March 27, 2020, 03:46:06 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEXFlicyd2c

A very "old-fashioned" recording from the 50's (on a Neo-Baroque Paul Ott organ, no less) of Scheidt's Fortune my foe variations that I found to be very intimate and moving.

Yes, and the surface noise from the LP gives it the aura of a treasured artefact from the lost golden age that never was. He's helped by the wonderful tune of Fortune My Foe, one of my favourite tunes ever. Even (especially?) a drunk whistling it makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand in end.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

vers la flamme

Just dipping my toes in the water here, but I have been listening to works by Scheidemann (organ music—did he write anything else?) and Sweelinck himself (harpsichord music) thanks to two great Naxos discs with Julia Brown and Glen Wilson, respectively. Is there anything I absolutely must hear?

Scion7

Quote from: vers la flamme on October 18, 2020, 05:01:44 PMScheidemann (organ music—did he write anything else?)

Neither he, nor his father - David, wrote anything but organ music according to the New Grove.
Heinrich's list of works:

keyboard
Chorale arrs. (org): Allein zu dir, Herr Jesu Christ; Ein feste Burg ist unser Gott: ed. K. Beckmann, Zwei Choralfantasien (Wiesbaden, 1992); A solus ortus cardine; Aus tiefer Not schrei ich zu dir; Christ lag in Todesbanden; Erbarm dich mein, o Herre Gott; Es spricht der unweisen Mund wohl; Gott sei gelobet und gebenedeiet; Herr Christ, der einig Gottes Sohn; 2 In dich hab ich gehoffet, Herr; Jesus Christus, unser Heiland; Komm heiliger Geist, Herre Gott; Lobet den Herren, denn er ist sehr freundlich; Mensch, willst du leben seliglich; Nun bitten wir den heiligen Geist; O Gott, wir danken deiner Güt; 3 Vater unser im Himmelreich; Wir glauben all an einen Gott; 2 Ky; O lux beata

Trinitas: all O i; 7 Mag, I–VI, VIII toni, O ii; O lux beata Trinitas, D-CZ (frag.); Te Deum laudamus, CZ (frag.)

Motet arrs. (org): Alleluja, Lauden dicite Deo nostro; Angelus ad pastores ait; 2 Benedicam Dominum; Confitemini Domino; De ore prudentis procedit mel; Dic nobis Maria; Dixit Maria ad angelum; Ego sum panis vivus; Omnia quae fecisti nobis Domine; Surrexit pastor bonus; Verbum caro factum est: all J and B; Jesu, wollst uns weisen, O i
12 praeambula, C, 6 in d, 2 in e, 2 in F, g: O iii, 1 in H; 2 canzonas, F, G: O iii; Fuga, d, O iii; 2 toccatas, C, G: O iii, 1 in H; Fantasia, G, O iii, H

Secular variations and dances (hpd), all H: 5 allemandes, 2 with courantes, 1 with variation, 3 in d, c, G; 2 ballett, d, F; 12 courantes, 7 with variations, 7 in d, 2 in F, 2 in a, g; galliard with variation, d; 2 mascheratas, C, g; Betrübet ist zu dieser Frist; Mio cor se vera sei Salamanca, Madrigal
When, a few months before his death, Rachmaninov lamented that he no longer had the "strength and fire" to compose, friends reminded him of the Symphonic Dances, so charged with fire and strength. "Yes," he admitted. "I don't know how that happened. That was probably my last flicker."

Mandryka

Quote from: vers la flamme on October 18, 2020, 05:01:44 PM
Just dipping my toes in the water here, but I have been listening to works by Scheidemann (organ music—did he write anything else?)

There's a lot of harpsichord music attributed to Scheidemann, the "standard" recording was by Pieter Dirksen, but Joseph  Rassam has also recorded it all. I haven't heard the music for years and years, and I don't think I've ever heard the Rassam.

Quote from: vers la flamme on October 18, 2020, 05:01:44 PMIs there anything I absolutely must hear?

Yes. You absolutely must hear everything on record of music by Sweelinck and Scheidemann.

Just speaking personally, the thing I remember which made me decide to take Sweelinck very seriously as a composer was hearing Bob Van Asperen play some fantasias on a harpsichord, on the big NL set. The music is really complex counterpoint, what Asperen did was very formative for me: I kind of learned how to listen to this sort of stuff, the penny dropped.


And again, just speaking personally, the organist who I love the most with this sort of music is Bernard Winsemius, there's a whole bunch of recordings called "Sweelinck, his sources and his influences."

You could do worse than to explore what Leonhardt left.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Harry

Quote from Manuel, born in Spain, currently working at Fawlty Towers.

" I am from Barcelona, I know nothing.............."

Harry

As to the artistry of Friedhelm Flamme, I have to say this. I was gifted the whole catalogue of what he recorded, and after listening to most of them, I have come to the conclusion that he is an able organist, who made some smashing recordings in the German Baroque series, but also some duds. Vincent Lubeck is one of them. I have listened once to it, and its certainly the last time. However his dedication is to be applauded, for he recorded many an unknown composer and did so with more or less good results. His organ choice is sometimes a total miss, as is his ability to grasp the technicalities of the Stylus fantasticus, almost absent or seriously handicapped in the Lubeck recording. The interpretations are mostly of a high level, but sometimes not. W. F Bach organ works, recorded by Flamme is a case in point. Also a recording to avoid in my opinion. His new project with the music by Buxtehude gave me the shivers too. Played on a Treutmann organ, the music is lost in chaos.Neither recording and performance can stand in the shadow of other worthies. And the organ he is using does not in any way compliment Buxtehude's art, on the contrary it destroys it. But Flamme is highly regarded in Germany, they obviously like what he does with the likes of Lubeck, WF Bach and now Buxtehude.
Quote from Manuel, born in Spain, currently working at Fawlty Towers.

" I am from Barcelona, I know nothing.............."

Mandryka

One recording on the Treutmann which I really enjoyed, from the point of view of interpretation and music, is the Michael Praetorius. I am not entirely in agreement with you about his Lubeck.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Harry

Quote from: Mandryka on October 21, 2022, 12:47:45 AM
One recording on the Treutmann which I really enjoyed, from the point of view of interpretation and music, is the Michael Praetorius. I am not in agreement with you about his Lubeck.

Interesting my friend, and in how far do you disagree about the Lubeck with my view. you think he is capable to a certain extent to execute the "Stylus fantasticus"? About the Treutmann organ in the Michael Praetorius I agree with you, but not whole heartily, I keep my reservation about his interpretation.
Quote from Manuel, born in Spain, currently working at Fawlty Towers.

" I am from Barcelona, I know nothing.............."

Mandryka

Quote from: Harry on October 21, 2022, 12:55:06 AM
Interesting my friend, and in how far do you disagree about the Lubeck with my view. you think he is capable to a certain extent to execute the "Stylus fantasticus"? About the Treutmann organ in the Michael Praetorius I agree with you, but not whole heartily, I keep my reservation about his interpretation.

Flamme's Ich ruf zu dir is one of my favourites!

He slows the music down a little, I guess because of the reverberant acoustic. I find the result majestic and solemn, in fact I enjoy that approach as much as more flamboyant interpretations on record. I like the textures and colours which Flamme creates too.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Harry

Quote from: Mandryka on October 21, 2022, 01:13:56 AM
Flamme's Ich ruf zu dir is one of my favourites!

He slows the music down a little, I guess because of the reverberant acoustic. I find the result majestic and solemn, in fact I enjoy that approach as much as more flamboyant interpretations on record. I like the textures and colours which Flamme creates too.

Hmmm, you have good equipment in your home, so you must hear that this organ is a bit overblown for the Music of Lubeck for starters, and the reverb destroys most of the detail in his music. Slowing the music down due to the reverb proves my point, that it is simply not the right organ. For not only it becomes tiresome to listen to it, it bores the Dickens out of me. The textures and colours all dwindle due again to the reverb and the bombast of the sound. Flamme uses the maximum of pressure to play the music, and for me that's a no go. But if you are happy with it so much the better. I am now listening to the first volume in this series with music by Bruhns and Leyting on the Christian Vater organ, and just this instrument would have been a far better choice for Lubeck.
Quote from Manuel, born in Spain, currently working at Fawlty Towers.

" I am from Barcelona, I know nothing.............."

premont

I agree with Harry, that the Treutmann organ is a bad choice for Lübeck. However the best part of the Lübeck CD is IMO the choral phantasia, and this is't surprising since he (Flamme) uses to make the best of the chorale bound works - and sometimes he is indeed very good in these (Prætorius eg.). But in the preludes (&fugues) on the Lübeck CD he is as clueless as in his recordings of the similar works by Buxtehude and Böhm.
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premont

Fortunately I found the Schildt/Berben CD and have listened to it. The organ (Scherer/Tangermünde) has as we know a beautiful and sweet sound and Berben uses this to the maximum by his choice of stops in an interpretation which is calm and reflective - a must have I think. Quite another approach than we know from some of his other recordings or from the recordings of Schildt by Joseph Kelemen, Annette Richards, Vincent van Laar or Friedhelm Flamme, who all focus on the more playful side of the music. I have four more recordings of Schildt's Magnificat (Harald Vogel, Gustav Leonhardt, Bernard Foccroulle and Manuel Tomadin), but haven't listened to them recently.

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Harry

Quote from: (: premont :) on October 23, 2022, 11:57:16 AM
Fortunately I found the Schildt/Berben CD and have listened to it. The organ (Scherer/Tangermünde) has as we know a beautiful and sweet sound and Berben uses this to the maximum by his choice of stops in an interpretation which is calm and reflective - a must have I think. Quite another approach than we know from some of his other recordings or from the recordings of Schildt by Joseph Kelemen, Annette Richards, Vincent van Laar or Friedhelm Flamme, who all focus on the more playful side of the music. I have four more recordings of Schildt's Magnificat (Harald Vogel, Gustav Leonhardt, Bernard Foccroulle and Manuel Tomadin), but haven't listened to them recently.

That' s good enough for me Poul, Berben goes in the order list, thank you for all the trouble I caused you :)
Quote from Manuel, born in Spain, currently working at Fawlty Towers.

" I am from Barcelona, I know nothing.............."

premont

Quote from: Harry on October 23, 2022, 12:28:54 PM
That' s good enough for me Poul, Berben goes in the order list, thank you for all the trouble I caused you :)

I'm glad I found it. It was certainly worth the effort.
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