English Suites and Partitas on harpsichord or clavichord

[XB-70 Valkyrie]

I actually like the Karl Richter (Teldec) a great deal, but I am looking for others. Any recommendations appreciated. Thanks.

[amw]

English Suites - Bob van Asperen, Ketil Haugsand
Partitas - Richard Egarr, Kenneth Weiss

[prémont]

English suites: van Asperen, Leonhardt, Curtis.
Partitas: Suzuki, Leonhardt, Belder, Mortensen.

[Mandryka]

I actually like the Karl Richter (Teldec) a great deal, but I am looking for others. Any recommendations appreciated. Thanks.

For the partitas, try Blandine Verlet (Philips)

[Traverso]

English suites: van Asperen and Leonhardt





Partitas :  Leonhardt and Rousset

[XB-70 Valkyrie]

I enjoy Asperen's performances on the Sweelinck set a great deal, so this is an interesting recommendation, as is the Leonhardt. I just finished the Gustav Leonhardt Edition (15 CD set) and found much new music to enjoy, as well as new (to me) performances that were quite enjoyable.

Looking through my collection, I noticed that I also have the complete English Suites by Kirkpatrick--digitized from LPs years ago--totally forgot about these. His WTC is great, but if I recall correctly, there is one set (Inventions I think), in which he plays with NO ornamentation, and it drives me absolutely mad. I also have 5, 6 with Huguette Dreyfus--another LP digitized long ago and forgotten about. (These would have been forgotten for even longer if I had not digitized them and added them to my collection managed by Foobar 2000.) Any thoughts on the Kirkpatrick and/or Dreyfus?

[prémont]

Looking through my collection, I noticed that I also have the complete English Suites by Kirkpatrick--digitized from LPs years ago--totally forgot about these. His WTC is great, but if I recall correctly, there is one set (Inventions I think), in which he plays with NO ornamentation, and it drives me absolutely mad. I also have 5, 6 with Huguette Dreyfus--another LP digitized long ago and forgotten about. (These would have been forgotten for even longer if I had not digitized them and added them to my collection managed by Foobar 2000.) Any thoughts on the Kirkpatrick and/or Dreyfus?

Kirkpatrick's English suites are played on a revival harpsichord with hard driven rhythms. They are very coloristic and in the old-fashioned style, stop changes being the only variations of repeats. Worth to listen to a couple of times, but not redeeming in the long run. The inventions I have heard of his was played on clavichord and uneventful at best. I have heard both parts of his WTC on clavichord and part two on harpsichord. I think part I wasn't but an ostentatious race, but part II on clavichord more reflective - something to return to. Part II on harpsichord was almost as uneventful as his inventions.

Dreyfus' 5th and 6th English suites (recorded in the early 1970es IIRC) seemed to me to still be a child of the sewing-machine concept, which fortunately was abandoned shortly afterwards.

[Mandryka]

Leonhardt made two recordings of the English Suites, the one in the picture above is the second, the first one looks like this



I once heard an interview with Hantai where he said that this first recording was what inspired him to focus on harpsichord. The second recording is very different, both seem essential to me.

If I remember right Colin Tilney was very good in this music, it may be worth hearing.

[Mandryka]

I actually like the Karl Richter (Teldec) a great deal, but I am looking for others. Any recommendations appreciated. Thanks.

I think you should get Haugsand's English Suites. He makes them sound like suites by D'Anglebert. This comment I found online caught my attention because I hadn't made any connections between cantabile and flexible rhythms before

Haugsand uses all the harpsichordist's expressive tools, though some listeners may feel to excess, with rhythms even too elastic at times, creating a less vocal approach.

[XB-70 Valkyrie]

Thanks for comments. I ordered the first Leonhardt (Seon) and will listen to that for a while before moving on.

[aligreto]

For the English Suites I like Rannou, Leonhardt and Valentini.
For the Partitas I like Rousset and Weiss.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

I actually like the Karl Richter (Teldec) a great deal, but I am looking for others. Any recommendations appreciated. Thanks.

You're a vinylist, aren't you? I like James Weaver's Partitas (Smithsonian) - LP only. I posted about them here:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,21808.msg717835.html

[Jo498]

Now I have been listening to about 7 or 8 recordings of Bach's English suites. Again, the only one I have culled was mostly for reasons of sound (too loud and agressive harpsichord). I hear differences, but have a hard time to form clear preferences. 3 recordings would be probably enough, or say 2 each piano and harpsichord. And because one usually gets no money for CDs if one tries to sell, I might as well keep most of what I have. But I need VERY good reasons nowadays to get the 5th (much less the 10th) recording of some music.

The loud and aggressive sounding discs were with Elina Mustonen. (I had put it in my "sell/trade" box already several years ago but was not able to get rid of it so I tried it again to no avail. It was impossible with headphones and still rather ugly over the speakers.
It might be also a problem of level and equipment (but then I am listening to the other discs on the same setups).
I am still on the brink wrt Rousset. And I was actually considering getting Rannou despite my
remarks above (no additional recordings) because it is available for 10 EUR and people claimed it was by far and way the best ever! I made a break with the English suites (listened to the partitas on piano and CPE symphonies instead).

The harpsichord "candidates" were Jaccottet, Mustonen, Rousset, Egarr. I also have Walcha and Curtis but they are in boxes and obviously not up for culling. Walcha is too unique anyway and Curtis is very good, I probably would not need any other.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

As for Partitas, I like Pinnock 1st and 2nd and Leonhardt 1st and 2nd. Specially I like P1 and L2. PJ Belder is good too.

[Mandryka]

But I need VERY good reasons nowadays to get the 5th (much less the 10th) recording of some music.

. . .  Walcha is too unique anyway and Curtis is very good, I probably would not need any other.

This made me think of a comment that Maria Yudina made in her discussion of Brahms

Listening to music is not a pleasure. It is a response to the grandiose efforts of the composer and to the extremely important work of the artist-performer.

Listening to music is a learning process of the highest degree, a synthetic labour that involves the emotional sphere in the continuous dynamics and phenomenology.

[prémont]

This made me think of a comment that Maria Yudina made in her discussion of Brahms

Quote from:  Maria Yudina
Listening to music is not a pleasure. It is a response to the grandiose efforts of the composer and to the extremely important work of the artist-performer.

Listening to music is a learning process of the highest degree, a synthetic labour that involves the emotional sphere in the continuous dynamics and phenomenology.

When you have got through that learning proces of the highest degree, continued listening may become a pleasure.

[Jo498]

The good thing is that it made me listen to this music and appreciate the pieces far more than I had before. Especially 5+6 must count among the best of Bach's keyboard suites.
As I a said, I had trouble coming to any verdict. Curtis is overall quite good but more pleasant sound is easily imaginable (although it is not distractingly offensive) and he could use a little more energy in some of the faster movements.
Jaccottet has somewhat better sound in my ears, also plays very clear but also very straightforward with little freedom or embellishment (as could be expected from someone on the brink between historically informed and more traditional playing) and is also not as wild in some of the faster pieces as I would like. On the contrary, Rousset's main (or sometimes only?) idea seems to play everything but the sarabandes as fast as possible. Mustonen got ruled out by ugly sound. This leaves Egarr where I need to do some more listening; certainly not as fast/monomaniac as Rousset, more flexible than Jaccottet and maybe the best sound of the ones I have.

Anyway, Rannou's seemed to have received almost unanimous praise so I am surprised that Premont apparently does not share this opinion at all if it was among his first suggestions for loud and ugly sound.

[prémont]

Anyway, Rannou's seemed to have received almost unanimous praise so I am surprised that Premont apparently does not share this opinion at all if it was among his first suggestions for loud and ugly sound.

Loud, not ugly. And the interpretation is rather elegant.

There are many other serious competitors as to the English suites. Leonhardt, van  Asperen,  Dubreuil, Tilney e.g.. And Suzuki, which still is in my future listening to pile, but which has received much praise.

[Marc]

This made me think of a comment that Maria Yudina made in her discussion of Brahms

Quote from:  Maria Yudina
Listening to music is not a pleasure. It is a response to the grandiose efforts of the composer and to the extremely important work of the artist-performer.

Listening to music is a learning process of the highest degree, a synthetic labour that involves the emotional sphere in the continuous dynamics and phenomenology.

Does she assume that responding to a grandiose and important effort can't be a pleasure?
And that a learning process of the highest degree can't be a pleasure, either?

I guess that she holds the word 'pleasure' in a rather low esteem.
I don't. I think that many people get loads of pleasure of learning grandiose and important things.

[Jo498]

I am surprised my post came even through with the current lagging.
Today I listened again to Rousset in 2+4. I can understand why some people like it a lot. Although he is very fast in some movements (I think the menuet in 4 is closer to gigue-tempo in his hands) my main complaint is not sheer speed but that the combination of speed and the massive, resonant sound of the instrument as it is captured leads for me to an aggressive relentlessness that gets tiring fairly soon.
It kind of works in the a minor that fits such an approach to an extent but even there I like more relaxing in the "second subject" of the prelude and overall I miss contrasts. E.g. in 4 with his fast menuet I find relatively little contrast between the menuet, the minore section and the following gigue.