English Suites and Partitas on harpsichord or clavichord

Started by XB-70 Valkyrie, July 31, 2018, 08:07:17 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Mandryka

What about Bohm and Kuhnau and Buxtehude? I mean, Bach knew them all.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Jo498

Sure, I don't think anyone doubt that there might be influence from such German composers but they aren't English or French! These suite nicknames are quite mysterious and must have "external" reasons, I think, not indicate clear stylistic influence from France or England.
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Mandryka

#42
Some random thoughts

1. The first English Suite is very French sounding -- elegant and not very contrapuntal. I also associate the 2nd English suite with Louis Marchand's music (but maybe his style is Italianate)

2. The partitas include a mix of national styles -- we have a corrente in the first, a courante in the 4th, a Tempo di Minuetto in 5 and a menuet in 1

3. The French suites seem to also include both French and English style music -- contrast, for example, the lively Italianate courante of 2 with the noble Frenchified courante of 1

4. The English Suites are called that just because Forkel said they were written for an Englishman -- nothing to do with musical style.

5. The French suites are called that because Marpurg referred to them like that and  Forkel said they were written in the french taste.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

prémont


Quote from: Mandryka on January 17, 2025, 08:54:24 AM3. The French suites seem to also include both French and English style music -- contrast, for example, the lively Italianate courante of 2 with the noble Frenchified courante of 1

I suppose you mean French and Italian style music.

Quote from: Mandryka on January 17, 2025, 08:54:24 AM4. The English Suites are called that just because Forkel said they were written for an Englishman -- nothing to do with musical style.

Yes, the English suites combine Italian, French and German style elements, yet there appears to be very little that is distinctly English about them, if anything at all.
Any so-called free choice is only a choice between the available options.

hopefullytrusting

Quote from: prémont on January 17, 2025, 09:47:50 AMYes, the English suites combine Italian, French and German style elements, yet there appears to be very little that is distinctly English about them, if anything at all.


If I'm not mistaken, it has English in the title ...


hopefullytrusting

My favorite English Partitas/Suites are performed by Chiara Massini.

Here is her playing 810: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17artzV0sFU

:)

Mandryka

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

Quote from: hopefullytrusting on January 17, 2025, 09:51:54 AMIf I'm not mistaken, it has English in the title ...



A peanut is called a peanut, but it is neither a pea nor a nut. The Holy Roman Empire was neither holy nor Roman nor an empire.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

ChamberNut

Quote from: hopefullytrusting on January 17, 2025, 09:51:54 AMIf I'm not mistaken, it has English in the title ...



You almost made me spill my "English" breakfast tea. 😂
Formerly Brahmsian, OrchestralNut and Franco_Manitobain

prémont

Quote from: hopefullytrusting on January 17, 2025, 09:51:54 AMIf I'm not mistaken, it has English in the title ...

Yes and no. The composer didn't call them English suites.
Any so-called free choice is only a choice between the available options.

Mandryka

#50
One question is whether "French Suites" is in the title. I think - I'll look it up later - there's a manuscript by one of JSB's students which refers to them as suites for the clavecin. No manuscript by JSB has been unearthed yet.


Anyway, enough already. I want to say this: I've been enjoying Rübsam's new English Suites 1 and 5 very much.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Jo498

All but one of the "French" were in the Anna Magdalena notebook before. As were the partitas a minor and e minor. "Anna Magdalena suites" would be a bit awkward but probably at least as fitting as "French".
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal