Schumann solo piano music

Started by Sean, August 22, 2007, 07:57:24 AM

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Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: Mandryka on November 09, 2013, 10:03:10 PM
I've never explored Carnival records much, it's somehow never grabbed me as much as Davidsbündlertänze or even the etudes.



I'd say take the piece on its own terms. It doesn't spiral in and out of sanity like some of the other pieces but the fantasy is of a high order. Perhaps try it with some popcorn. ;D


Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Holden

My introduction to Carnaval was Solomon and I still rate it highly. I have to agree that the Egorov is also an excellent recording.
Cheers

Holden

Brahmsian

Many thanks for the recommendations.  Keep them coming!  :)


Brian

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on November 09, 2013, 09:55:44 PM
I'd say next try to acquaint yourself with the Symphonic Etudes. Top-o-the-heap Schumann. The extroverted nature of the piece is unlike anything else in Schumann's output. But it's no mere showpiece. As with all Schumann's piano music it's the poetry that'll grip you.

I've grown to enjoy Pletnev's iconoclastic way with this piece. And his pianistic color is marvelous. Next would definitely be Richter, though. The piece really breathes under his touch.


Thanks for this! I've only listened to the Symphonic Etudes three or four times, and haven't really "gotten" them yet. They're more of a challenge to me, anyway, than some of the other works have been.

Does anyone have opinions on Eric Le Sage? I remember sampling a few of his recordings and finding them ... antsy. If that makes sense.

Mandryka

#84
Quote from: Brian on November 10, 2013, 06:36:43 AM
Thanks for this! I've only listened to the Symphonic Etudes three or four times, and haven't really "gotten" them yet. They're more of a challenge to me, anyway, than some of the other works have been.

Does anyone have opinions on Eric Le Sage? I remember sampling a few of his recordings and finding them ... antsy. If that makes sense.

You've got to remember that the symphonic etudes is problematic in terms of the text -- what to include, the order, stuff like that. The key big work for me is neither Carnival nor the Etudes but Davidsbundlertanze. But really you should hear the sonatas too, op 11 especially.

Le Sage I like very much -- try his Fantasiestuke op 12 to hear him at his best I would say.

Re Carnival, which I've decided I just don't really like, I found this live performance from Arrau on youtube (there are 4 parts there. Is it available as a recording?()

http://www.youtube.com/v/dC0JAWQsZwM
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

#85
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on November 09, 2013, 09:55:44 PM
I'd say next try to acquaint yourself with the Symphonic Etudes. Top-o-the-heap Schumann. The extroverted nature of the piece is unlike anything else in Schumann's output. But it's no mere showpiece. As with all Schumann's piano music it's the poetry that'll grip you.

I've grown to enjoy Pletnev's iconoclastic way with this piece. And his pianistic color is marvelous. Next would definitely be Richter, though. The piece really breathes under his touch.
 


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I like Pletnev and Richter and Hess too. My top choices though would probably be none of them -- I would chose Nathan Brand, and maybe Pollini (1976),  Cortot (1955), Ernst Levy, Sofronitsky, Arrau live.

I wonder what the Schumannists here think of this Symphonic Etudes from Steven De Groote. Too beautiful?

http://www.youtube.com/v/vAL8pqmNSYw


Just you bringing it up made me remember that I wanted to hear Schliessmann's recording again.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Brian

Quote from: Mandryka on November 10, 2013, 07:37:54 AM
You've got to remember that the symphonic etudes is problematic in terms of the text -- what to include, the order, stuff like that. The key big work for me is neither Carnival nor the Etudes but Davidsbundlertanze. But really you should hear the sonatas too, op 11 especially.

Thanks for the comment on Le Sage. I listened to the DBT for the first time a few days ago and find it interesting that you call it a key big work - after all, it's a book of little bitty works, no? (At any rate, loved 'em. Pollini. And Pollini's Etudes [DG '83] are queued up for this afternoon.)

George

I'm glad Mandryka mentioned Natan Brand. His Schumann is really something special. The live and the studio stuff.

I also think Richter, Arrau, Rubinstein and Cortot each have a special way with Schumann's music.
"I can't live without music, because music is life." - Yvonne Lefébure

Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: Mandryka on November 10, 2013, 07:37:54 AM
Ypu've got to remember that the symphonic etudes is problematic in terms of the text -- what to include, the order, stuff like that.

Whatever subtexts there might be I've never found the etudes problematic purely as a listening experience. It's got that highly disparate element to it as do may of Schumann's piano works but I've always clicked with it. Apparently others' milage may vary. 

QuoteThe key big work for me is neither Carnival nor the Etudes but Davidsbundlertanze.

I think that's a rather eccentric view and certainly backwards to accepted wisdom. Not that having your personal preferences is in any way invalidated by "accepted wisdom" but putting forward DBT as a "go to" work above Carnival and the etudes is like saying Schubert's first symphony is the "go to" symphony over his ninth. Obviously good listening isn't in short supply in either work but structurally and thematically the maturity of the ninth is impossible to beat.

DBT has its partisans - and I like it too, of course - but I don't see it matching in quality the sheer brilliance of other more cohesive works.   


Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Mandryka

#89
Quote from: Brian on November 10, 2013, 08:10:12 AM
Thanks for the comment on Le Sage. I listened to the DBT for the first time a few days ago and find it interesting that you call it a key big work - after all, it's a book of little bitty works, no? (At any rate, loved 'em. Pollini. And Pollini's Etudes [DG '83] are queued up for this afternoon.)

No DBT's not like orgelbüchlein or something. It's a suite of dances. There's a masterplan, a narrative, incolving a contest. The wikipedia article on it isn't bad.

Pollini's DG etudes aren't bad. If you want me to let you have the live one from 1976, which I prefer, let me know.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

#90
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on November 10, 2013, 08:25:30 AM
Whatever subtexts there might be I've never found the etudes problematic purely as a listening experience. It's got that highly disparate element to it as do may of Schumann's piano works but I've always clicked with it. Apparently others' milage may vary. 

I think that's a rather eccentric view and certainly backwards to accepted wisdom. Not that having your personal preferences is in any way invalidated by "accepted wisdom" but putting forward DBT as a "go to" work above Carnival and the etudes is like saying Schubert's first symphony is the "go to" symphony over his ninth. Obviously good listening isn't in short supply in either work but structurally and thematically the maturity of the ninth is impossible to beat.

DBT has its partisans - and I like it too, of course - but I don't see it matching in quality the sheer brilliance of other more cohesive works.

Really? Whose wisdom? I suspect you need to think harder about DBT.

Rosen would agree with me, for what it's worth.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Herman

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on November 10, 2013, 08:25:30 AM
I think that's a rather eccentric view and certainly backwards to accepted wisdom. [...]
DBT has its partisans - and I like it too, of course - but I don't see it matching in quality the sheer brilliance of other more cohesive works.

I'm a DBT fan too. Have been so for decades, and I think it's as cohesive as romantic era music gets.

Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: Mandryka on November 10, 2013, 08:05:42 AM
I like Pletnev and Richter and Hess too. My top choices though would probably be none of them -- I would chose Nathan Brand, and maybe Pollini (1976),  Cortot (1955), Ernst Levy, Sofronitsky, Arrau live.

Again, eccentric. Cortot '55?? Come now, not even the most ardent Cortot fan will elevate anything from that late in his career as first choice. His technique had simply withered by then.

I only know Levy's Beethoven but it's very far afield from the mainstream. Literally its over-the-top emotionalism is its only defining feature. Beethoven for those who've become bored with Beethoven. If his Schumann is in a similar vein then it's not a top choice. 

I wouldn't be surprised by the Arrau, however, but he's never been a fave of mine in Schumann.

QuoteI wonder what the Schumannists here think of this Symphonic Etudes from Steven De Groote. Too beautiful?

http://www.youtube.com/v/vAL8pqmNSYw


Sounds good to me. :)


Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: Mandryka on November 10, 2013, 08:30:17 AM
Really? Whose wisdom? I suspect you need to think harder about DBT.

Rosen would agree with me, for what it's worth.

I've been thinking about DBT for 25 years now. 0:)



Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: Herman on November 10, 2013, 08:39:07 AM
I'm a DBT fan too. Have been so for decades, and I think it's as cohesive as romantic era music gets.

Well, I didn't say I didn't like the DBT. It is indeed a nice piece. I just wouldn't classify it as a "first choice" Schumann piece. That should go to the Fantasie, Kreisleriana, the etudes...even some of the song cycles.


 
Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Mandryka

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on November 10, 2013, 08:47:23 AM
Well, I didn't say I didn't like the DBT. It is indeed a nice piece. I just wouldn't classify it as a "first choice" Schumann piece. That should go to the Fantasie, Kreisleriana, the etudes...even some of the song cycles.




The question though isn't about whether or not you like it, it's about coherence. I thought your point was that it's a second rate work for some reason.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

#96
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on November 10, 2013, 08:41:24 AM
Again, eccentric. Cortot '55?? Come now, not even the most ardent Cortot fan will elevate anything from that late in his career as first choice. His technique had simply withered by then.

I only know Levy's Beethoven but it's very far afield from the mainstream. Literally its over-the-top emotionalism is its only defining feature. Beethoven for those who've become bored with Beethoven. If his Schumann is in a similar vein then it's not a top choice. 

I wouldn't be surprised by the Arrau, however, but he's never been a fave of mine in Schumann.

Sounds good to me. :)

Let me know if you want me to let you have the Levy Etudes. Maybe we could have a better discussion when you're familiar with it.

Have you heard that 1955 recording from Cortot? I don't have a problem with his technique. What technical issues are you hearing which get so much in the way - I think it's a very psychological performance, deep.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: Mandryka on November 10, 2013, 08:49:36 AM
The question though isn't about whether or not you like it, it's about coherence.

The main thrust of my objection to your comment was elevating the DBT over such renowned works as the etudes and Carnival.


Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Mandryka

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on November 10, 2013, 08:54:31 AM
The main thrust of my objection to your comment was elevating the DBT over such renowned works as the etudes and Carnival.

Because there's some coherence problem with DBT? Or what?
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

George

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on November 10, 2013, 08:25:30 AM
Whatever subtexts there might be I've never found the etudes problematic purely as a listening experience. It's got that highly disparate element to it as do may of Schumann's piano works but I've always clicked with it. Apparently others' milage may vary. 

Indeed. If one did not connect with the Etudes right off, then I'd guess the pianist would be to blame.
"I can't live without music, because music is life." - Yvonne Lefébure