Sad day for music

[Saul]

Over 50.000.000 views for avril's stupid video "girlfriend".
Most watched on youtube....
What pulls people to listen to this junk?

[Josquin des Prez]

Over 50.000.000 views for avril's stupid video "girlfriend".
Most watched on youtube....
What pulls people to listen to this junk?

Jews plotting to destroy western civilization are the cause behind the dumping down of our culture and arts. 

But seriously. This isn't anything new. Taste in art and general entertainment has gone downhill since the 60s. Blame it on the communists (dang i did it again).

[Heather Harrison]

It's hard to say what causes it.  I wonder if it has to do with decreasing attention spans and the generally busy pace of life; many people don't want to go to the bother to listen to music that they might have to put some effort into.  They just want something simple and undemanding.  This isn't really all that new; some of the big hits of the late 1950's/early 1960's were quite simple and not very musically interesting (although now that they are dated and out of fashion, I find that they do have a certain level of quaint charm).

I have considered attempting to survey modern popular music in an attempt to understand the culture, but from what little I have heard it will be such an unpleasant task that I wonder if it's worth it, and I haven't so far been able to bring myself to dig in to this task.

I am very interested in popular music from the 1960's and earlier.  I have noticed that it often follows a cyclical pattern; one style gets old, tired, and worn out and then something new and exciting comes along to replace it.  In the 1890's, popular music based on light classical music (which had become rather tired by then) was upstaged by ragtime; by the late 1910's, ragtime had run its course and jazz (actually a variant of ragtime) burst onto the scene and supplanted not only ragtime, but also the remnants of the pre-ragtime style that remained.  1920's jazz evolved into swing which led to the easy listening pop vocals of the 1950's, which the young kids found so dull and boring that they went for the exciting new genre of rock & roll (actually a combination of boogie woogie, country, and rhythm & blues).  Nowadays, I think mainstream rock & roll and its derivatives have become dull and tired, and afflicted by the overapplication of modern technology to cover up for poor musicianship.  It is time for something entirely new and exciting to come along and sweep the current pop music scene aside.  (Rap came along and shook things up, but I just don't find it all that interesting, and it seems to be losing its edge anyway.)  However, I wonder if it can happen now like it did before.  Radio stations in the U.S. are run by large corporations that play it safe, and musical taste seems rather more fragmented than it used to be.  In the 1940's, practically everybody listened to or knew of artists such as Benny Goodman, Bing Crosby, Glenn Miller, and Frank Sinatra, and the styles of music they performed were everywhere and could not be avoided.  Nowadays, particular artists don't seem quite so ubiquitous (except when the gory details of their sordid lives make it into the news).

If something new does come in and take the pop music world by storm, I wonder if it will come from some non-western culture.  As I look around the world, I find interesting popular music from countries outside of Europe and North America.  Or perhaps someone will rearrange the influences that make up today's pop music and breathe some life back into it.  It's hard to say.

What I want from popular music is real talent and creativity - singers who can actually sing, people who can actually play musical instruments, and people who can compose a good song and write a good lyric.  I want to hear a real performance and not just recording technology.  The best salon music, ragtime, 1920's jazz, 1940's swing (and modern neo-swing), and 1950's through 1960's rock & roll have all these qualities.  But these qualities seem to be lacking in much of today's mainstream pop.

Heather

[head-case]

Apparently you people imagine that in 1826 peasants throughout Europe were listening to Beethoven's Grosse Fugue and not some crude folk music that was less sophisticated than even Avril. 

[Renfield]

Apparently you people imagine that in 1826 peasants throughout Europe were listening to Beethoven's Grosse Fugue and not some crude folk music that was less sophisticated than even Avril. 

I don't think I should add anything, after this comment.

And to be honest, why not Avril, or even Marilyn Manson for that matter? Do you expect people to stop themselves from watching and/or enjoying something because there is some apparently "higher" art they can pursue and/or benefit from, at that moment? There's a time for everything, really: I listen to classical (a lot, obviously), and I also listen to Evanescence on occasion. Decadent me!

In other words, I find the present topic rather moot, whether it's trying to prove that western civilisation is eroding away, or is simply intending to focus all our attention on how "garbage" other forms of entertainment than our preferred own actually are. I trust I made my point.

[Saul]

Apparently you people imagine that in 1826 peasants throughout Europe were listening to Beethoven's Grosse Fugue and not some crude folk music that was less sophisticated than even Avril. 

I think that at least their "folk music" wasnt junk. They were simple melodies and tunes.

[dtwilbanks]

It's still simple melodies. With BIG DRUMS!

[Saul]

It's still simple melodies. With BIG DRUMS!

This music is stupid, all avrils music is stupid. Who follows her music?
Just watch her concerts, you'll see.

[Haffner]

I agree with Heather on those excellently written and thought out points.

Sometimes I wonder whether I love "complicated music" (my father's term) just because it is complicated.

I have alot of trouble taking most of today's Rock world seriously. The bands I loved as a very young man (1970's) could be seen as a novelty today. I have the feeling that most of the Rock and Rap that's around today will seem that way in time.

[greg]

If something new does come in and take the pop music world by storm, I wonder if it will come from some non-western culture.  As I look around the world, I find interesting popular music from countries outside of Europe and North America.  Or perhaps someone will rearrange the influences that make up today's pop music and breathe some life back into it.  It's hard to say.

always wondering about the future, just like me, lol

or is this the future of music?...
http://youtube.com/watch/v/36Xt-XeWnHM

[Saul]

It's hard to say what causes it.  I wonder if it has to do with decreasing attention spans and the generally busy pace of life; many people don't want to go to the bother to listen to music that they might have to put some effort into.  They just want something simple and undemanding.  This isn't really all that new; some of the big hits of the late 1950's/early 1960's were quite simple and not very musically interesting (although now that they are dated and out of fashion, I find that they do have a certain level of quaint charm).

I have considered attempting to survey modern popular music in an attempt to understand the culture, but from what little I have heard it will be such an unpleasant task that I wonder if it's worth it, and I haven't so far been able to bring myself to dig in to this task.

I am very interested in popular music from the 1960's and earlier.  I have noticed that it often follows a cyclical pattern; one style gets old, tired, and worn out and then something new and exciting comes along to replace it.  In the 1890's, popular music based on light classical music (which had become rather tired by then) was upstaged by ragtime; by the late 1910's, ragtime had run its course and jazz (actually a variant of ragtime) burst onto the scene and supplanted not only ragtime, but also the remnants of the pre-ragtime style that remained.  1920's jazz evolved into swing which led to the easy listening pop vocals of the 1950's, which the young kids found so dull and boring that they went for the exciting new genre of rock & roll (actually a combination of boogie woogie, country, and rhythm & blues).  Nowadays, I think mainstream rock & roll and its derivatives have become dull and tired, and afflicted by the overapplication of modern technology to cover up for poor musicianship.  It is time for something entirely new and exciting to come along and sweep the current pop music scene aside.  (Rap came along and shook things up, but I just don't find it all that interesting, and it seems to be losing its edge anyway.)  However, I wonder if it can happen now like it did before.  Radio stations in the U.S. are run by large corporations that play it safe, and musical taste seems rather more fragmented than it used to be.  In the 1940's, practically everybody listened to or knew of artists such as Benny Goodman, Bing Crosby, Glenn Miller, and Frank Sinatra, and the styles of music they performed were everywhere and could not be avoided.  Nowadays, particular artists don't seem quite so ubiquitous (except when the gory details of their sordid lives make it into the news).

If something new does come in and take the pop music world by storm, I wonder if it will come from some non-western culture.  As I look around the world, I find interesting popular music from countries outside of Europe and North America.  Or perhaps someone will rearrange the influences that make up today's pop music and breathe some life back into it.  It's hard to say.

What I want from popular music is real talent and creativity - singers who can actually sing, people who can actually play musical instruments, and people who can compose a good song and write a good lyric.  I want to hear a real performance and not just recording technology.  The best salon music, ragtime, 1920's jazz, 1940's swing (and modern neo-swing), and 1950's through 1960's rock & roll have all these qualities.  But these qualities seem to be lacking in much of today's mainstream pop.

Heather

Good points Heather...

[dtwilbanks]

Who follows her music?

Little kids?

[Sean]

Art is in serious trouble- take the London Proms concerts, one of the world's longest music festivals, instead of exploring the rich resource of works we have there are now numerous jazz, musicals, film music, folk music, world pop music etc etc concerts: the whole idea of art has been lost. Most people just don't want it and the real Proms concerts become more and more self conscious and an embarrasment to the horde.

[beclemund]

I think it is caused by the increased likelihood that 13 year old girls will have computer access this day and age.

Many are not looking for complexity in music and are happy to watch some forgettable stringy blond kid hop around and sing pointless songs that may resonate better in the lives of a pre-teen over something composed decades ago in dedication to some duke, count or other nobleman. I am sure none of us ever deigned to listen to pop music when we were in junior high.

[greg]

what i don't get is how people my age can't relate to the music i listen to when it's the exact same emotions that anyone else my age would understand.

either it's because it's a) never played on the radio; b) too long; c) not popular or d) all of the above.

ok, yeah, it's d

[karlhenning]

Over 50.000.000 views for avril's stupid video "girlfriend".

I don't get why this supposedly maps onto "a sad day for music."

[Hector]

Jews plotting to destroy western civilization are the cause behind the dumping down of our culture and arts. 

But seriously. This isn't anything new. Taste in art and general entertainment has gone downhill since the 60s. Blame it on the communists (dang i did it again).

OK, OK, you're a Nazi, no need to labour the point, we know!

Why bother with shit like Youtube? Is it the fashion?

[greg]

I don't get why this supposedly maps onto "a sad day for music."

yeah, every day is a sad day for music

[Renfield]

Mind you, having now seen the video in question, I can assert with the utmost certainty that a certain percentage of those 50.000.000+ views were related to the imagery in the video, more than the music. Short skirts, anyone?

(In other words, don't discount non-musical factors involved in the popularity of this type of music. It might sound base. but we're talking about human beings, here, not supreme disembodied higher intellects of some sort.)

Finally, may I add that the debate in the present thread is, unfortunately, showing signs of age-related bias? In fact, it's almost as strong as the equally-amusing ease by which people closer to my age dismiss classical music. Apparently, respect of other people's taste is not included in the classical-music-listening portfolio, any more than it is included in the "pop music" aficionados' agenda: a shame.

But then again, it's all about the "kids being silly" and watching "stupid" videos on "shit like Youtube", isn't it? A "caste" even I seem to belong to, having just seen that very video-clip (albeit for reasons other than the "isn't Avril hawt", or "isn't this music the B3st eV4r??").

[head-case]

Mind you, having now seen the video in question, I can assert with the utmost certainty that a certain percentage of those 50.000.000+ views were related to the imagery in the video, more than the music. Short skirts, anyone?

The world really is going to hell in a hand-basket, after all "Girlfriend" is grossly inferior to "Complicated" by the same artist.  At this rate of decay, civilization will be all but decimated within 3 years, by my calculation.