Prematurely Avant-Garde

Started by Archaic Torso of Apollo, August 15, 2018, 03:11:04 PM

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Archaic Torso of Apollo

I'm interested in pieces written before 1900 which make you practically jump out of your seat, thinking "that sounds like it could be written today!"

Some examples:

Beethoven's Grosse Fuge: I believe Stravinsky and others have commented on the eternal modernity of this piece. My jump-out-of-the-seat moment was hearing the Pacifica Quartet play it as part of Op. 130. Frankly, it was kind of shocking when heard live.

Tallis, Spem in alium: I realize this isn't the only hyper-complicated vocal piece of the Renaissance, but somehow it's always sounded the most "out there" to me.

Rameau, Overture to Zais: similar in effect to the "chaos music" from Haydn's Creation, though even more elemental and weird.

Mozart, Symphony #40, the Andante: maybe this is just my oddball reaction, but the way this movement develops always reminded me of minimalism. There's something disconcerting about a classical-era slow mvt. that sounds like this.

Also, David Munrow did an album "14th Century Avant-Garde," which is part of the Art of Courtly Love anthology. Outlandish music from the Court of Avignon.

Any others?
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

some guy

Well, I suppose if you define "today" just right, you could generate a list like this.

I don't think any of the pieces mentioned sound like they could have been written today.

But then, I probably have a different idea of "today" than Archaic does. Andrea Neumann. Sachiko M. Mark Andre. Ludger Brümmer. Emmanuelle Gibello. And nothing from before 1900 sounds anything like what those people (and dozens more) are doing today.

I also think that "prescient" is different from "sounds like it could [have been] written today." Biber's Battalia looks forward in one bit, but no further than Ives. Pretty impressively far, but not to "today." Bits of Berlioz sound very prophetic, especially the tomb scene from Romeo et Juliette. But not so far as to today. Not than anyone with their own list will care two hoots about what "today" really sounds like. Oh well.

Archaic Torso of Apollo

Quote from: some guy on August 15, 2018, 03:33:38 PM
"today" [...] today.

[...]"today" [...] today.

[...] today." [...] "today." [...]. [...]"today" [...]Oh well.

No point in getting hung up on the "T" word. Feel free to re-define it as "far ahead of its time."
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

lisa needs braces

What about the highly dissonant La Malinconia section of opus 18 no. 6?  ;D

San Antone

Solage: Fumeux fume par fumee

https://www.youtube.com/v/iGLi84edjho

Does not sound like most music from the 14th century

Of course, Ives was always seen as writing music before his time; Satie as well.

amw


vandermolen

The 'Sinfonie Singuliere' by Berwald (1845) sounds to me like it belongs to a much later period.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

kyjo

Quote from: vandermolen on August 16, 2018, 04:39:50 AM
The 'Sinfonie Singuliere' by Berwald (1845) sounds to me like it belongs to a much later period.

+1
"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" - Sergei Rachmaninoff

some guy

Hindsight usually gets credited as being a good thing....

SymphonicAddict

Aquarium from Saint-Saëns' The Carnival of the Animals. It's almost minimalistic and with effects aplenty.

Brian

I don't think anyone caught up to Berlioz until Janacek and Nielsen, in some ways (orchestration mainly, use of brass, desire to make you jump out of your seat from sheer physical force).

Biber Battalia has been mentioned. Since you bring up "premature minimalism," Vivaldi Op 9 No 1 (La Cetra) opens with a great example, and Chopin's Berceuse is not so far off. I think a few years ago I tricked a couple GMGers into thinking the first three measures of Rachmaninov Piano Trio No 1 were by Glass or Riley. Of course the effect wears off the second you hear the pianist play a single chord.

Omicron9

Archaic Torso,

Excellent thread idea.  As I was reading the introduction to your original post, the first piece that came to mind was indeed the Grosse Fuge, but you beat me to it.

I would nominate just about any or all of Gesualdo's work.  Highly amazing.

Regards,
-09
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