Recordings of Machaut's Motets

Started by Mandryka, October 19, 2018, 09:12:14 AM

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Mandryka

#20
In Motet 11 the lover is feeling very bad because his beloved won't even let him look at her again.

In the triplum he says that although his death is foreseeable, it would be sweet if he could only get another eyefull, in the motetus he's resigned to dying without so much as getting a peep.

The tenor is in French for the first time in the cycle, and simply says "sweet noble heart." It's from a popular song.

The interesting thing about the motet is the juxtaposition of death and sweetness, but apparently this was a familiar trope to the readers of popular medieval mystical literature. The idea which was current at the time was that the suffering of Christ in the passion was counterbalanced by the sweetness of his existence after the crucifixion. And similarly, for anyone wanting to achieve mystical union, there will be great suffering in the process, which will be counterbalanced by great sweetness when the quest comes to its fruition. No pain no gain, as it were.

As far as recordings go, I've found Gothic Voices twice, HE, EMN, Orlando (Dart of Love), Clerks Group and Studio der frühen Musik.

 

Let's deal with Gothic Voices first. The recording in The Mirror of Narcissus was made in April 1983. The performance is languid and harmonically rich. The performance in The Study of Love was made almost a decade later in October 1992, and is much faster.  They are both fabulous IMO, I especially like the earlier one because of my penchant for slower tempos.

The booklet essays by Christopher Page don't discuss this motet, but he does say something interesting and revealing about another Machaut song Trop plus / Biauté parée / Je ne suis. in his essay for The study of Love:

QuoteTrop plus / Biauté parée / le ne suis is a three-part motet that welcomes a very sprightly performance. Many years ago, David Munrow recorded the piece at a very slow tempo; this brings out the dissonances but may sometimes deprive the cross-rhythms and fragmented musical phrases of their excitement.

HE are even slower than the one in Mirror of Narcissus, but, to parody Page, I think the motet welcomes a very unsprightly performance, even if it's at the expense of excitement.

EMN provide us with a lovely instrumental rendition of the music in the motetus before offering a speedy performance of the three part motet -- speedy but I smell no glibness -- I don't know about excitement.

Studio der frühen Musik are blessed with the voice of Andrea von Ramm, at least, I see it as a blessing, and if you share this view you won't want to miss out on this characterful and heartfelt performance. Instruments for the tenor.

Orlandos singing is controlled and quite expressive. For me it lacks some of the magic of the others -- this could be me or it could be a familiar failing of complete editions starting to rear its ugly head. They are producing an awful lot of recordings at the moment. Anyway, there are dangers of overthinking the listening when you do comparative listening like I'm doing -- the Orlando taken alone in a more normal context would probably be full of magic even for me!

Clerks Group are also very fine -- basically they're all well worth knowing -- I can't rank these things! No! It's a great piece of music which has brought out the best of most of the performers -- I was quite surprised to be unable to find any amateur ones on youtube though.


Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

#21
The tenor from Motet 12, Libera Me, is straight out of Genesis where, apparently, the verb "deliver" used in the King James Bible is a good translation from the Hebrew

QuoteDeliver me, I pray you, from the hand of my brother, from the hand of Esau

The reason this may be important is that some exegetical literature of Machaut's time interpret the passage as a plea to be freed from earthly desire -- carnal desire -- the hands of my brother.

The triplum says the lover says that he is really terribly anguished  because he loves someone who hates him. The motetus is a complaint about the way Fortune can be so nasty -- making good people suffer and giving wealth to the bad etc.

So what is the meaning of the juxtaposition of these three texts? And what does the music contribute?

If it's true that Libera me has an underlying meaning which is a plea to be protected from carnal desires -- desires which can only be a distraction for the person seeking mystical unity -- then the combination of tenor, motetus and triplum is a vivid way of presenting the distraction that evil Fortune can place in the way of the person on a mystical journey.

There are only two recordings of this motet that I know -- Orlando (Fortune's Child) and EMN. Orlando's is very interesting because it suggests something about how the music is contributing to the meaning of the whole.

Orlando stagger the voices -- in particular the way the motetus is shifted from the triplum suggests turbulence, a reflection perhaps of the mental turbulence expressed in the poem. The voices are well contrasted, I especially appreciate the growling tenor (sung by a bass!) . The recorded ambience is very transparent and dry.   EMN are rather less interesting in my opinion.

It appears to be a minor motet at first, but when you dig a little bit deeper, at least in the hands of The Orlando Consort, Motet 12 may well be a really good example of Machaut's special genius.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

#22
The life of the pilgrim who seeks after union with God is not a long tranquil stream, and it is well recorded in medieval self help manuals (eg Suso's Horologia) that Christ may appear to be warm and friendly, and then suddenly turn cold and nasty.

The triplum personifies the lady (=Christ) with three images, Miss Fair Welcome, Madame Sweet Greeting and Dame Appearance of Love. She appears nice and friendly, but in fact she's a proud and heartless bitch who's going to give him the push for no good reason.

The poem has a powerful bit of poetry to describe this rejection, just about readable if you can read modern french. He says that his lady

QuoteCom cil qui son anemi
Mienne noier com amy
Les bras au col: et tray
M'ont par tel affaire


The motetus is a short poem which says much the same thing as the triplum, basically saying that now the lady knows he loves her, she just wants to see him suffer.

The tenor of Motet 13 just one word, ruina -- unidentified and IMO a rather strong word.


There's only one recorded performance of the motet that I know of, by Hilliard. It's interesting to see how the polyphony is, in their hands, so expressive. EMN recorded the triplum as a chanson which they sing in a cheery way, they suggest that there's a source in this form, by commenting "we were able to choose among several versions of the same motet." Disappointing that they don't say more.







Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

#23
The tenor of motet 14 Quia amore langueo comes from a passage from Song of Songs "Filiae Hierusalem, nuntiate dilecto quia amore langueo" which in english gives

QuoteDaughters of Jerusalem, tell my beloved that I am sick of love.

It was part of an antiphon in the liturgy for the feast of the assumption, hence Machaut's audience would have been clear about the context. The story goes that when Mary was in her death throes, Jesus appeared, Mary became happy that the end was near,  and she said that she was sick with love. The phrase Quia amore langueo represents the moment of readiness for death through love (how romantic! Florestan, where are you?) Of course, everything is allegorical, and the Assumption is, in the popular mysticism of the time, a metaphor for union with Christ, which, by analogy, involves the end (death) of the pre-enlightened self.

The motetus is IMO very interesting as a poem because it's got a sting in its tail. It looks as though he's  happy because Fortune has  smiled on him. He  builds it up

QuoteDe ma douleur comfortes doucement
De mon labour meris tres hautement
De grand tristour en toute joie mis . . .


etc etc for about 10 lines.  But then in the last line he announces

QuoteMais, par m'ame, je mens parmi mes dents

Shocking! It's fabulous and funny even!

The triplum says that he's thoroughly miserable because he's not one with his woman.



Three ensembles have recorded this motet as far as I can tell.  Orlando (Gentle physician) sing the whole motet cheerfully, beautifully but as far as I can see, without any insight into the meaning. It's a high standard of work, but workmanlike nonetheless. The Vocalconsort Berlin sing the upper two parts with drums. EMN sing the triplum and motetus separately. I love the way EMN present the triplum, the way they use drums, and I very much like Vocalconsort Berlin's performance too -- they are both very cool.

However I would say that none of them plumb the poetic meaning of the motet, it's mystical and emotional meaning -- HE is sorely missed!

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

atm

I dont like the sound of Musica Nova much. Its too high pitched and shrill. But the second track is great. I think its the only one without female singers. It sounds like the motets on the recording that graindelavoix made.

Mandryka

#25
They sing 12 with low voices  - and 14 and 20 in a way too.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Vinbrulé

My first immersion into the Machaut's motets performed by Ensemble Musica Nova has been simply electrifying (mind you: listening without reading the texts, I just wanted to hear the overall musical effect, as if it were a fugue) 
I will do a pause before returning to Machaut for a second listening , it is not easy listening. During these breaks ( 1-2 days long ) I usually return to Bach, instrumental Bach :)
I would have preferred a different order in the placement of the motets on disc, tracks 1 and 2 are logically consecutive ( one voice alone and then all the three together) , but in other cases this has not been done.
But it is a venial sin. I love this music . Many many thanks to this thread for the dispensed advices !

Traverso

What a wealth, I have just listened to a few samples from this set and I am so impressed that I have bought this set without delay.Luckily I found this edition  ( second-hand )


Que

#28
Quote from: Traverso on November 23, 2018, 01:51:44 PM
What a wealth, I have just listened to a few samples from this set and I am so impressed that I have bought this set without delay.Luckily I found this edition  ( second-hand )



Excellent choice!  :)
The original edition on ZigZag has later been reissued on Æon - confusingly...

[asin]B004V4GXY8[/asin]

The elaborate notes of the original are said not to have survived the reissue, however....

Q

Traverso

Quote from: Que on November 23, 2018, 01:59:50 PM
Excellent choice!  :)
The original edition on ZigZag has later been reissued on Æon - confusingly...

[asin]B004V4GXY8[/asin]

The elaborate notes of the original are said not to have survived the reissue, however....

Q

Fortunately I found the original edition ( Bol.),I'm very excited about this music.I listened earlier today to the Tudor music ,it is as drinking heavenly soup. :D

Mandryka

In my opinion the Hilliard is at least as rewarding as the EMN, though I can imagine some people may not like the acoustic quality.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

#31


Hilliard

1. Harmonic conception of the music, I mean the interesting thing is when the layers overlap to make harmonies. That's why they sing a capella, with no contrasting instrumental timbers to marr the harmonically exciting blends, and presumably they are using just intonation, which makes the harmonies more scrunchy, to use a technical term.

2. Prima le parole. They believe that Machaut intended the music to express the sentiment found in the poetry.

EMN

1. Melodic and rhythmic conception of the music, I mean the interesting thing is to bring out the independent melody and rhythm of each voice. Instruments are used to create a less homogeneous texture, and to help the listener follow each voice simultaneously. What sort of intonation do they use? It sounds less scrunchy than Hilliard.

2. Prima la musica. They don't seem to show much interest in making their singing express the feelings in the poems, they're much more concerned about creating a clear strong pulse and and an exciting pace.


Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

#32
This is the current state if the Orlando Consort's series vis a vis  the motets. Please let me know if I've made a mistake.

QuoteM1 "Quant en moy / Amour et biauté / Amara valde"  Dart of Love
M2 "De souspirant / Tous corps qui de bien amer / Suspiro" Burning Heart
M3 "Fine Amour / He! Mors com tu es haie / Quare non sum mortuus"  Fortune's Child
M4 "Puisque la douce rousee / De Bon Espoir / Speravi" Soverign Beauty
M5 "Qui plus aimme / Aucune gent m'ont demandé / Fiat voluntas tua" Burning Heart
M6 "S'Amours tous amans joir / S'il estoit nulz qui pleindre / Et gaudebit cor vestrum"
M7 "Lasse! je sui en aventure / J'ay tant mon cuer / Ego moriar pro te" Soverign Beauty
M8 "Ha! Fortune / Qui es promesses de Fortune / Et non est qui adjuvet" Single Rose
M9 "O livoris feritas / Fons totuis superbie / Fera pessima" Single Rose
M10 "Helas! ou sera pris confors / Hareu! hareu! le feu / Obediens usque ad mortem"
M11 "Fins cuers doulz / Dame, je sui cilz / Fins cuers doulz" Dart of Love
M12 "Corde mesto cantando / Helas! pour quoy virent / Libera me" Fortune's Child
M13 "Eins que ma dame / Tant doucement m'ont attrait / Ruina"
M14 "De ma dolour / Maugre mon cuer / Quia amore langueo" Gentle Physician
M15 "Faus Samblant m'a deceu / Amours qui ha le pouoir / Vidi Dominum"
M16 "Se j'aim mon loyal ami / Lasse! comment oublieray / Pour quoy me bat mes matris?" Dart of Love
M17 "O series summe rata / Quant vraie amour enflamee / Super omnes speciosa"
M18 "Bone pastor, qui pastores / Bone pastor, Guillerme / Bone pastor" (c. 1324) Single Rose
M19 "Diligenter inquiramus / Martyrum gemma latria / A Christo honoratus"
M20 "Biaute paree de valour / Trop plus est belle / Je ne sui mie certeins" Fortune's Child
M21 "Veni creator spiritus / Christe, quie lux es / Tribulatio proxima est et non est qui adjuvet" (c. 1358–60 or later)
M22 "Plange, regni respublica / Tu qui gregem tuum ducis / Apprehende arma et scutum et exurge" (c. 1358–60 or later)
M23 "Inviolata genitrix / Felix virgo / Ad te suspiramus gementes et flentes" (c. 1358–60 or later)
M24 "De touz les biens / Li enseignement / Ecce tu pulchra es amica mea" (doubtful)
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka



Listening to this CD from start to end today, one reason why I like the Hilliard approach so much became clearer. It's a cycle. Whereas other interpretations chose instruments for some, two, three, four or six voices for others, and so in some sense offer a lot more variety, the uniformity of the Hilliard approach is its very strength. As with Art of Fugue, there's enough variety in the music, it doesn't need timbres and textures changing from one motet to the next, and doing so makes for a less coherent presentation.

The sound was better than I'd heard it before because over the past year I've got better hifi. There is, IMO, no problem at all about the sound, but there may be a problem about some playback equipment.

I got it out because vers la flamme suggested that Dufay represents a step forward from Machaut, listening to this confirmed my initial reaction that that's not quite the case. Dufay's Dufay, Machaut's Machaut. Everything is what it is and not another thing.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

San Antone

Quote from: Mandryka on October 08, 2019, 01:54:52 PM


Listening to this CD from start to end today, one reason why I like the Hilliard approach so much became clearer. It's a cycle. Whereas other interpretations chose instruments for some, two, three, four or six voices for others, and so in some sense offer a lot more variety, the uniformity of the Hilliard approach is its very strength. As with Art of Fugue, there's enough variety in the music, it doesn't need timbres and textures changing from one motet to the next, and doing so makes for a less coherent presentation.

The sound was better than I'd heard it before because over the past year I've got better hifi. There is, IMO, no problem at all about the sound, but there may be a problem about some playback equipment.

I got it out because vers la flamme suggested that Dufay represents a step forward from Machaut, listening to this confirmed my initial reaction that that's not quite the case. Dufay's Dufay, Machaut's Machaut. Everything is what it is and not another thing.

I always liked that recording.

Selig

Quote from: Mandryka on September 12, 2019, 12:35:03 AMThis is the current state if the Orlando Consort's series vis a vis  the motets. Please let me know if I've made a mistake.


The final volume releases tomorrow. So an update:

M1 "Quant en moy / Amour et biauté / Amara valde"  Dart of Love
M2 "De souspirant / Tous corps qui de bien amer / Suspiro" Burning Heart
M3 "Fine Amour / He! Mors com tu es haie / Quare non sum mortuus" Fortune's Child
M4 "Puisque la douce rousee / De Bon Espoir / Speravi" Soverign Beauty
M5 "Qui plus aimme / Aucune gent m'ont demandé / Fiat voluntas tua" Burning Heart
M6 "S'Amours tous amans joir / S'il estoit nulz qui pleindre / Et gaudebit cor vestrum" Lion of Nobility
M7 "Lasse! je sui en aventure / J'ay tant mon cuer / Ego moriar pro te" Soverign Beauty
M8 "Ha! Fortune / Qui es promesses de Fortune / Et non est qui adjuvet" Single Rose
M9 "O livoris feritas / Fons totuis superbie / Fera pessima" Single Rose
M10 "Helas! ou sera pris confors / Hareu! hareu! le feu / Obediens usque ad mortem" A Lover's Death
M11 "Fins cuers doulz / Dame, je sui cilz / Fins cuers doulz" Dart of Love
M12 "Corde mesto cantando / Helas! pour quoy virent / Libera me" Fortune's Child
M13 "Eins que ma dame / Tant doucement m'ont attrait / Ruina" Lion of Nobility
M14 "De ma dolour / Maugre mon cuer / Quia amore langueo" Gentle Physician
M15 "Faus Samblant m'a deceu / Amours qui ha le pouoir / Vidi Dominum" A Lover's Death
M16 "Se j'aim mon loyal ami / Lasse! comment oublieray / Pour quoy me bat mes matris?" Dart of Love
M17 "O series summe rata / Quant vraie amour enflamee / Super omnes speciosa" A Lover's Death
M18 "Bone pastor, qui pastores / Bone pastor, Guillerme / Bone pastor"  Single Rose
M19 "Diligenter inquiramus / Martyrum gemma latria / A Christo honoratus" A Lover's Death
M20 "Biaute paree de valour / Trop plus est belle / Je ne sui mie certeins" Fortune's Child
M21 "Veni creator spiritus / Christe, quie lux es / Tribulatio proxima est et non est qui adjuvet" Fount of Grace
M22 "Plange, regni respublica / Tu qui gregem tuum ducis / Apprehende arma et scutum et exurge" Fount of Grace
M23 "Inviolata genitrix / Felix virgo / Ad te suspiramus gementes et flentes" Fount of Grace

The later volumes have had some excellent motet performances I think, M23 for example.

Mandryka

Quote from: Selig on January 29, 2025, 06:25:36 PMThe final volume releases tomorrow. So an update:

M1 "Quant en moy / Amour et biauté / Amara valde"  Dart of Love
M2 "De souspirant / Tous corps qui de bien amer / Suspiro" Burning Heart
M3 "Fine Amour / He! Mors com tu es haie / Quare non sum mortuus" Fortune's Child
M4 "Puisque la douce rousee / De Bon Espoir / Speravi" Soverign Beauty
M5 "Qui plus aimme / Aucune gent m'ont demandé / Fiat voluntas tua" Burning Heart
M6 "S'Amours tous amans joir / S'il estoit nulz qui pleindre / Et gaudebit cor vestrum" Lion of Nobility
M7 "Lasse! je sui en aventure / J'ay tant mon cuer / Ego moriar pro te" Soverign Beauty
M8 "Ha! Fortune / Qui es promesses de Fortune / Et non est qui adjuvet" Single Rose
M9 "O livoris feritas / Fons totuis superbie / Fera pessima" Single Rose
M10 "Helas! ou sera pris confors / Hareu! hareu! le feu / Obediens usque ad mortem" A Lover's Death
M11 "Fins cuers doulz / Dame, je sui cilz / Fins cuers doulz" Dart of Love
M12 "Corde mesto cantando / Helas! pour quoy virent / Libera me" Fortune's Child
M13 "Eins que ma dame / Tant doucement m'ont attrait / Ruina" Lion of Nobility
M14 "De ma dolour / Maugre mon cuer / Quia amore langueo" Gentle Physician
M15 "Faus Samblant m'a deceu / Amours qui ha le pouoir / Vidi Dominum" A Lover's Death
M16 "Se j'aim mon loyal ami / Lasse! comment oublieray / Pour quoy me bat mes matris?" Dart of Love
M17 "O series summe rata / Quant vraie amour enflamee / Super omnes speciosa" A Lover's Death
M18 "Bone pastor, qui pastores / Bone pastor, Guillerme / Bone pastor"  Single Rose
M19 "Diligenter inquiramus / Martyrum gemma latria / A Christo honoratus" A Lover's Death
M20 "Biaute paree de valour / Trop plus est belle / Je ne sui mie certeins" Fortune's Child
M21 "Veni creator spiritus / Christe, quie lux es / Tribulatio proxima est et non est qui adjuvet" Fount of Grace
M22 "Plange, regni respublica / Tu qui gregem tuum ducis / Apprehende arma et scutum et exurge" Fount of Grace
M23 "Inviolata genitrix / Felix virgo / Ad te suspiramus gementes et flentes" Fount of Grace

The later volumes have had some excellent motet performances I think, M23 for example.

Cheers, Selig. I'm going to go through this thread soon and listen to each motet systematically again, see what new performances I can get hold of. That'll be a good project for the Spring.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen