Holst: The Planets

Karl Henning · October 30, 2018, 05:18:23 AM

Quote from: 71 dB on October 30, 2018, 05:17:40 AM
Yeah. Why they always play 'Mars' on radio, when the work has so much more to offer...

Because they recognize it from Star Wars

71 dB · October 30, 2018, 05:20:57 AM

Quote from: Daverz on October 30, 2018, 05:05:46 AM
I really like Lloyd-Jones in British Music. I should give that one a listen.

I'm very satisfied with the disc, but I don't know how it compares to the competition.

71 dB · October 30, 2018, 05:23:07 AM

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 30, 2018, 05:18:23 AM
Because they recognize it from Star Wars

So why not play John Williams if you want Star Wars?

Biffo · October 30, 2018, 05:23:39 AM

When Pluto was downgraded to a minor planet some bright spark had the idea of commissioning four contemporary composers to depict, if that is the right word, four asteroids as companions to Holst's masterpiece. No one seemed aware that Holst was interested in the astrological connotations of the planets not their physical properties.

Someone posted on this forum (?) a link to performances of the works on YouTube. All four composers had the same idea - a cold, barren distant object. From what I can remember only one of the pieces was in any way distinctive, the other three were pretty much interchangeable. I can't recall the names of the composers involved.

Does anyone else remember this thread, I can't find it.

Karl Henning · October 30, 2018, 05:24:27 AM

Quote from: Biffo on October 30, 2018, 05:23:39 AM
When Pluto was downgraded to a minor planet some bright spark had the idea of commissioning four contemporary composers to depict, if that is the right word, four asteroids as companions to Holst's masterpiece. No one seemed aware that Holst was interested in the astrological connotations of the planets not their physical properties.

Exactly.

His most popular work, yet not everyone can be bothered to mark what the composer meant . . . .

Biffo · October 30, 2018, 05:31:47 AM

Quote from: 71 dB on October 30, 2018, 05:23:07 AM
So why not play John Williams if you want Star Wars?

There is a Double Decca that has The Planets, Star Wars Suite and Also Sprach Zarathustra, all from Mehta and the Los Angeles PO. It is quite pricey at the moment but you get three recognisable bits from the movies.

Karl Henning · October 30, 2018, 05:35:02 AM

Quote from: Biffo on October 30, 2018, 05:31:47 AM
There is a Double Decca that has The Planets, Star Wars Suite and Also Sprach Zarathustra, all from Mehta and the Los Angeles PO. It is quite pricey at the moment but you get three recognisable bits from the movies.

And that is the answer: marketing.

vandermolen · October 30, 2018, 05:51:41 AM

Quote from: Biffo on October 30, 2018, 05:23:39 AM
When Pluto was downgraded to a minor planet some bright spark had the idea of commissioning four contemporary composers to depict, if that is the right word, four asteroids as companions to Holst's masterpiece. No one seemed aware that Holst was interested in the astrological connotations of the planets not their physical properties.

Someone posted on this forum (?) a link to performances of the works on YouTube. All four composers had the same idea - a cold, barren distant object. From what I can remember only one of the pieces was in any way distinctive, the other three were pretty much interchangeable. I can't recall the names of the composers involved.

Does anyone else remember this thread, I can't find it.

Not sure where the thread is but I thought that 'Pluto' was commissioned shortly before the astronomers decided that Pluto (the place) wasn't a real planet after all! This greatly amused me as I did not like the idea of another composer composing an additional movement to the Planets but at least Colin Matthews did bring back Neptune at the very end.

Biffo · October 30, 2018, 06:09:15 AM

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 30, 2018, 05:35:02 AM
And that is the answer: marketing.

That is probably the rationale for the Double Decca but the Holst and Strauss had been released separately. The Strauss LP had a very striking cover on its original release. I bought it after seeing 2001 etc, before that the only Strausses (Straussen?) I had heard of wrote waltzes. I was very young at the time.

Karl Henning · October 30, 2018, 06:33:03 AM

Quote from: Biffo on October 30, 2018, 06:09:15 AM
That is probably the rationale for the Double Decca but the Holst and Strauss had been released separately. The Strauss LP had a very striking cover on its original release. I bought it after seeing 2001 etc, before that the only Strausses (Straussen?) I had heard of wrote waltzes. I was very young at the time.

There is a nice history of cinema being an entrée to classical music. It's kind of a backwash IMO when the idea is "This makes John Williams a classical composer!" But . . . that is a beast which has been flogged elsewhere.

relm1 · October 30, 2018, 07:20:02 AM

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 30, 2018, 06:33:03 AM
There is a nice history of cinema being an entrée to classical music. It's kind of a backwash IMO when the idea is "This makes John Williams a classical composer!" But . . . that is a beast which has been flogged elsewhere.

...Why you....

Ghost of Baron Scarpia · October 30, 2018, 08:40:28 AM

I will say it, John Williams is a very talented classical composer.

You will say the score to Star Wars is all "derivative." I will grant you that. Find me some music that is not derivative of something. It is brilliantly executed orchestral music that has a sound all it's own.

Karl Henning · October 30, 2018, 08:45:51 AM

My fault for the tangent. ~~I'll pay the fine.~~ I'll take it over here.

71 dB · October 30, 2018, 09:03:45 AM

Quote from: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on October 30, 2018, 08:40:28 AM
I will say it, John Williams is a very talented classical composer.

You will say the score to Star Wars is all "derivative." I will grant you that. Find me some music that is not derivative of something. It is brilliantly executed orchestral music that has a sound all it's own.

John Williams may not be one of the best classical composers in history, but he is one of the best movie music composers in history if not THE best (to me he is). The music of Star Wars is movie music. It's not supposed to be original. It's supposed to support the movie and have the correct emotional content and it has. John Williams' genius is in "stealing/borrowing" from the perfect places (and having a huge talent for melodic themes).

Maestro267 · October 30, 2018, 10:26:32 AM

This thread reeks of snobbery right now. Thank you Ghost of Baron Scarpia for applying the air freshener.

Christo · October 30, 2018, 10:49:22 AM

Yet, I cannot see why The Planets should be associated with film music that came a couple of decades later. The only connection is, that many composers of film music in the mid 20th century used it as a source of inspiration - but there's no such connection the other way around. Whatever one holds of The Planets, it's completely original in this sense.

Biffo · October 30, 2018, 11:01:02 AM

I don't want to push a generalisation too far but rather than any film more people in the UK came to The Planets through the patriotic hymn 'I vow to thee my country' along with 'Jupiter'.

Karl Henning · October 31, 2018, 01:22:02 AM

Quote from: Maestro267 on October 30, 2018, 10:26:32 AM
This thread reeks of snobbery right now.

I admitted that my remark was an intrusive parenthesis.

I decline the suggestion that I am a snob, thank you very much.

No, no, don't bother to apologize.

Elgarian Redux · November 01, 2018, 01:12:45 PM

I just long for the old days, of infectious planetary bounce and twinkling orbital affection. Ah, we knew a thing or two about The Planets back then, Karl, Gustav, and me.

Karl Henning · November 02, 2018, 04:46:39 AM

I'm still jiggered that, when I look at Mars, I do not see the Mars of now, but the Mars of three minutes ago . . . .