Author Topic: Thirty three and a third.  (Read 116340 times)

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Offline Pohjolas Daughter

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1060 on: November 13, 2021, 05:17:05 AM »
When the stars align with work, performance, recording and pressing the LP record is capable of producing a unique listening experience. Admittedly rare and usually when you least expect it.



Bernstein both playing and conducting his NYP in the Shostakovich 2nd Piano Concerto was such an event. Bernstein's playing is inhuman, an avalanche of sound. Directing the orchestra at the same time is taking the p---!
Although also available in stereo this copy is a Dutch mono recording. I have a theory that 1950's recordings (this is circa 6/1/1958) are more focused and dynamic in the mono format. Stereo was to come into it's own in the 1960's. My pressing is hot, with the music leaping from the grooves. But more importantly, what a performance!
Cool!   8)  Sounds like you had an amazing listening session!   :)

PD

Offline Irons

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1061 on: November 13, 2021, 08:16:42 AM »
Cool!   8)  Sounds like you had an amazing listening session!   :)

PD

 ;)

A strange one, PD. Purchased today a US Everest pressing of RVW 9th Symphony SDBR 3006. All well and good but it is sealed! A label which is a minefield. The Belock originals from the early 1960's are wonderful but post the demise of the company the pressings have a reputation of being awful. The label would settle it but breaking the seal does not appeal to me. The image below is an exact replica. I note the right hand edge has "Hi-Fi LP" not "Stereo" although a stereo recording. What would you do? 
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Offline Pohjolas Daughter

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1062 on: November 13, 2021, 03:19:13 PM »
;)

A strange one, PD. Purchased today a US Everest pressing of RVW 9th Symphony SDBR 3006. All well and good but it is sealed! A label which is a minefield. The Belock originals from the early 1960's are wonderful but post the demise of the company the pressings have a reputation of being awful. The label would settle it but breaking the seal does not appeal to me. The image below is an exact replica. I note the right hand edge has "Hi-Fi LP" not "Stereo" although a stereo recording. What would you do?
Hi Irons,

I have some info saved somewhere about Everest and pressings.  Will try and find it for you.  Off the top of my head and from what I can recall, the early ones had a narrowish stripe going from top to bottom on the cover by the opening and said something like "An original Belock recording"..maybe including his first name too.  Found this digging around:  Harry Belock was the original owner of Everest and he had his name prominently displayed on the cover.  The first pressings sound fantastic.  Belock soon lost interest and sold.  And the quality went down from there...

Think that I've found an image of an early pressing: 



I'd be tempted to do a bit more research re your cover and dating it.  I think (despite the comments that I found), from what I recall, it wasn't just the first pressings which sounded good.  If I find out more info, I'll happily share it with you.  Are you concerned with returning it to a seller and that's why you're holding off opening it up?  Was it very expensive?

PD

EDIT:  I found the website that I had remembered:  http://vinylbeat.com/cgi-bin/labelfocus.cgi?label=EVEREST&label_section=D,E,F  From what I recall, it was the later reissue ones which were supposedly inferior.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2021, 08:01:46 AM by Pohjolas Daughter »

Offline Irons

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1063 on: November 14, 2021, 05:01:51 AM »
Hi Irons,

I have some info saved somewhere about Everest and pressings.  Will try and find it for you.  Off the top of my head and from what I can recall, the early ones had a narrowish stripe going from top to bottom on the cover by the opening and said something like "An original Belock recording"..maybe including his first name too.  Found this digging around:  Harry Belock was the original owner of Everest and he had his name prominently displayed on the cover.  The first pressings sound fantastic.  Belock soon lost interest and sold.  And the quality went down from there...

Think that I've found an image of an early pressing: 



I'd be tempted to do a bit more research re your cover and dating it.  I think (despite the comments that I found), from what I recall, it wasn't just the first pressings which sounded good.  If I find out more info, I'll happily share it with you.  Are you concerned with returning it to a seller and that's why you're holding off opening it up?  Was it very expensive?

PD

Thanks PD, you are confirming my suspicions that not an original Belock pressing. No, not expensive its just if sealed for sixty years I didn't want to be the one that broke it. My knowledge of US pressings is sketchy at best so I thought of asking you. An inscription on the lower right hand corner of the back cover - An Everest Records Production, 1313 N. Vine St, Hollywood 28, Calf.
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Offline Pohjolas Daughter

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1064 on: November 14, 2021, 07:53:27 AM »
Thanks PD, you are confirming my suspicions that not an original Belock pressing. No, not expensive its just if sealed for sixty years I didn't want to be the one that broke it. My knowledge of US pressings is sketchy at best so I thought of asking you. An inscription on the lower right hand corner of the back cover - An Everest Records Production, 1313 N. Vine St, Hollywood 28, Calf.
Hey, life is short.  Why not open it up and give it a shot?  Some time ago, I found a website that showed the various label incarnations and changes over the years.  Will try and find it again for you.  This weekend has been pretty busy, but I won't forget you.   :)

PD

Note:  I went to modify this reply and accidentally added my comments to an earlier posting!  See above.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2021, 08:03:02 AM by Pohjolas Daughter »

Online vandermolen

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1065 on: November 15, 2021, 12:04:52 AM »
That performance of VW's 9th Symphony, recorded a few hours after the composer died in August 1958, is a very fine one. Some of the LPs included a speech by Boult 'To our American friends...' The other Everest LP I really liked was Copland conducting his own Third Symphony with the LSO (much better than Bernstein's CBS/Sony recording IMO). There a very good VW 'Job' as well (also Boult) although there were play-back problems when it transferred to CD.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2021, 12:08:12 AM by vandermolen »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Irons

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1066 on: November 15, 2021, 01:00:53 AM »
That performance of VW's 9th Symphony, recorded a few hours after the composer died in August 1958, is a very fine one. Some of the LPs included a speech by Boult 'To our American friends...' The other Everest LP I really liked was Copland conducting his own Third Symphony with the LSO (much better than Bernstein's CBS/Sony recording IMO). There a very good VW 'Job' as well (also Boult) although there were play-back problems when it transferred to CD.

I have the RVW 9th released under licence by the WRC. Not the 3rd Symphony, but I do have Copland's "Billy the Kid" on Everest which is excellent. I recall Vanguard released a series of Everest CD's in the mid 1990's which I avidly collected as they were so good.

I will take PD's advice and open up the sealed LP. Hopefully post a label image.
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Offline Pohjolas Daughter

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1067 on: November 15, 2021, 05:05:14 AM »
I have the RVW 9th released under licence by the WRC. Not the 3rd Symphony, but I do have Copland's "Billy the Kid" on Everest which is excellent. I recall Vanguard released a series of Everest CD's in the mid 1990's which I avidly collected as they were so good.

I will take PD's advice and open up the sealed LP. Hopefully post a label image.
Not certain whether or not you caught my edit (to an earlier posting), but you can compare your label to ones on this website which will give you an idea of how early/late your pressing was made in the history of that record company:  http://vinylbeat.com/cgi-bin/labelfocus.cgi?label=EVEREST&label_section=D,E,F

Working on morning coffee here.....  :)

PD

Offline Irons

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1068 on: November 15, 2021, 07:40:02 AM »
Not certain whether or not you caught my edit (to an earlier posting), but you can compare your label to ones on this website which will give you an idea of how early/late your pressing was made in the history of that record company:  http://vinylbeat.com/cgi-bin/labelfocus.cgi?label=EVEREST&label_section=D,E,F

Working on morning coffee here.....  :)

PD

Morning coffee is addictive. If I miss out my teeth start to itch!

Label 5 PD, so late. UK pressed 3 are horrible.

The Copland above is 4A and I think I have 4C somewhere. Sadly 1A I don't have.

Thanks for info.
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Offline Irons

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1069 on: November 16, 2021, 12:40:24 AM »
Regarding Everest Records (in the United States).  Unless the back of the record jacket is silver and the record label is also silver-themed, the record is a near worthless reissue.  Everest, after bankruptcy sale in 1962, became a notorious cheap reissue label.  The genuine Everest classical recordings-- the first sixty or so numerically in the SDBR catalogue-- particularly suffered in reissue because worn stampers and inferior vinyl were used.  Everest dominated my early classical record collecting years and I took no pleasure in its decline.

Ahh, I thought as much. Thanks for the information. I guess original good pressings would be very expensive in the US.

A few facsimile issues were released in 1996 on the audiophile label DCC. Would not surprise me if these are now becoming expensive.
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Offline geralmar

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1070 on: November 16, 2021, 01:06:35 PM »
Everest, as a legitimate, viable classical L.P. label, only lasted 1958-62.  It was a subsidiary of Belock Instruments, which manufactured underwater microphones for the U.S. Navy.  Unfortunately Belock Instruments was caught defrauding the Government, and Everest was a victim of the dissolution of the parent company.  The label was purchased by an investor; afterwards "Everest" was slapped on all kinds of indifferent reissue product.  Furtwangler's widow sued the company for its unauthorized issue of a set of Beethoven symphonies under the Everest/Olympic label.  Among her complaints was that the 2nd symphony was not conducted by Furtwangler.  The set was quickly withdrawn; but of course I own a copy.

I read that Stokowski was furious when he found one of his Everest recordings in a record store cut-out bin.  I've always wondered if this was the reason Everest recordings were later issued under pseudonyms on the ultra-cheap Peerless Classics label, hundreds of which I once encountered in a Woolworths.  I didn't buy any at the time; but own a few now.



1974
« Last Edit: November 16, 2021, 11:09:49 PM by geralmar »

Online vandermolen

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1071 on: November 16, 2021, 10:46:57 PM »
I have the RVW 9th released under licence by the WRC. Not the 3rd Symphony, but I do have Copland's "Billy the Kid" on Everest which is excellent. I recall Vanguard released a series of Everest CD's in the mid 1990's which I avidly collected as they were so good.

I will take PD's advice and open up the sealed LP. Hopefully post a label image.
The Third Symphony was included in the CD release Lol:
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Irons

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1072 on: November 17, 2021, 01:09:19 AM »
Everest, as a legitimate, viable classical L.P. label, only lasted 1958-62.  It was a subsidiary of Belock Instruments, which manufactured underwater microphones for the U.S. Navy.  Unfortunately Belock Instruments was caught defrauding the Government, and Everest was a victim of the dissolution of the parent company.  The label was purchased by an investor; afterwards "Everest" was slapped on all kinds of indifferent reissue product.  Furtwangler's widow sued the company for its unauthorized issue of a set of Beethoven symphonies under the Everest/Olympic label.  Among her complaints was that the 2nd symphony was not conducted by Furtwangler.  The set was quickly withdrawn; but of course I own a copy.

I read that Stokowski was furious when he found one of his Everest recordings in a record store cut-out bin.  I've always wondered if this was the reason Everest recordings were later issued under pseudonyms on the ultra-cheap Peerless Classics label, hundreds of which I once encountered in a Woolworths.  I didn't buy any at the time; but own a few now.



1974

Fascinating. I was aware of the short life of the Company but the rest of your post is all new to me. There is a parallel with Decca who were heavily involved in the development of radar systems during WWII.
I have a DCC Everest reissue of Stokowski conducting the Shostakovich 5th.   
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Offline Irons

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1073 on: November 17, 2021, 01:35:35 AM »
The Third Symphony was included in the CD release Lol:


The World Record Club, who reissued many Everest titles in the UK, went for Susskind, Jeffrey! Initially I thought an odd choice and surprised he even recorded for the label, but Appalachian Spring does have more popular appeal.

You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Offline Pohjolas Daughter

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1074 on: November 17, 2021, 04:34:18 AM »
Interesting to read about the World Record Club.  You're fortunate that they released so many wonderful LPs in your neck of the woods.  :)

I do have several of those Everest CDs and they are wonderful!  Probably my favorite is the Vaughan Williams' 9th one.  Some years ago BRO had a bunch of them for sale at discount prices.  Lucky me!  :D

By the way, I stumbled across a listing on Prestomusic's website.  They offer a number of the Everest recordings as downloads in various quality from Mp3 on up.  A sample here.... https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/search?search_query=Everest%20vaughan%20williams

PD

Offline Irons

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1075 on: November 17, 2021, 07:58:26 AM »
Interesting to read about the World Record Club.  You're fortunate that they released so many wonderful LPs in your neck of the woods.  :)

I do have several of those Everest CDs and they are wonderful!  Probably my favorite is the Vaughan Williams' 9th one.  Some years ago BRO had a bunch of them for sale at discount prices.  Lucky me!  :D

By the way, I stumbled across a listing on Prestomusic's website.  They offer a number of the Everest recordings as downloads in various quality from Mp3 on up.  A sample here.... https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/search?search_query=Everest%20vaughan%20williams

PD

Today sound engineers are not held in such high esteem as the early days of stereo. Three greats in the US - Bob Fine at Mercury, Lewis Leyton at RCA and Bert Whyte at Everest were masters of the art. With all the tech progress in the intervening years I still prefer recordings by these guys to the super-clean digital age we are now in. 
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Offline aligreto

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1076 on: November 19, 2021, 02:21:57 AM »
Today sound engineers are not held in such high esteem as the early days of stereo. Three greats in the US - Bob Fine at Mercury, Lewis Leyton at RCA and Bert Whyte at Everest were masters of the art. With all the tech progress in the intervening years I still prefer recordings by these guys to the super-clean digital age we are now in.

People like those mentioned above, and others, of course, defined the "Sound" of their label. One knew what to expect, in a good way.
I agree regarding the super-clean digital comment above and would add that many modern recording [far from all, I hastily add] can unfortunately sound too sterile to these ears. However, I am happy to be a dinosaur of the Analogue Age.  ;D
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and leave no doubt.

Offline Pohjolas Daughter

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1077 on: November 19, 2021, 06:26:53 AM »
Today sound engineers are not held in such high esteem as the early days of stereo. Three greats in the US - Bob Fine at Mercury, Lewis Leyton at RCA and Bert Whyte at Everest were masters of the art. With all the tech progress in the intervening years I still prefer recordings by these guys to the super-clean digital age we are now in.
The best ones should be.

People like those mentioned above, and others, of course, defined the "Sound" of their label. One knew what to expect, in a good way.
I agree regarding the super-clean digital comment above and would add that many modern recording [far from all, I hastily add] can unfortunately sound too sterile to these ears. However, I am happy to be a dinosaur of the Analogue Age.  ;D
+1  And, yes, sometimes the digital recordings sound off--balance-wise and/or too much in your face; I really don't need to hear every breath that the musician takes.   :(

PD

Offline Spotted Horses

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1078 on: November 19, 2021, 09:25:16 AM »
The best ones should be.
+1  And, yes, sometimes the digital recordings sound off--balance-wise and/or too much in your face; I really don't need to hear every breath that the musician takes.   :(

PD

Walter Legge and EMI and Kenneth Wilkinson at Decc probablly also deserve some mention is this connection. There are more recent labels who pursued an honest microphone technique, such as Steven Epstein at Sony and Jack Renner at Telarc.

One of the big drivers of ultra-many microphone technique is economics. A very large array of microphones, almost to the point where every instrument is recorded separately, facilitates editing - dropping a wrong note out of the mix and replacing it with the the same instrument on another take, cutting between takes while using separately recorded reverb to cover the break, etc. It makes it possible to use live recordings, and rehearsals, rather than costly recording sessions.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2021, 09:45:47 AM by Spotted Horses »

Offline aligreto

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1079 on: November 19, 2021, 09:42:03 AM »

One of the big drivers of ultra-many microphone technique is economics. A very large array of microphones, almost to the point where every instrument is recorded separately, facilitates exiting - dropping a wrong note out of the mix and replacing it with the the same instrument on another take, cutting between takes while using separately recorded reverb to cover the break, etc. It makes it possible to use live recordings, and rehearsals, rather than costly recording sessions.

A good point, well made. As in every business, economics becomes the driver.
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and leave no doubt.