Author Topic: Thirty three and a third.  (Read 129981 times)

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Offline Irons

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1180 on: January 25, 2022, 08:06:55 AM »
Thankfully you did not need it.

The GMG vinyl Queen. This thread would be all the poorer without her!

You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Offline aligreto

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1181 on: January 25, 2022, 09:15:01 AM »
The GMG vinyl Queen. This thread would be all the poorer without her!



 8)

Now that is a truth  :)
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and leave no doubt.

Offline Pohjolas Daughter

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1182 on: January 25, 2022, 09:55:40 AM »
Thankfully you did not need it.
Yes!  ;D

Used it again today to clean a boxed set of Ashkenazy/Previn/LSO Prokofiev piano concertos.  Will listen to one of those later.

PD

Offline Irons

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1183 on: January 27, 2022, 12:56:03 AM »
Gems from the Philips Catalogue: https://youtu.be/1Nx2I0Nt3SA

I found the section on David Lloyd-Jones particularly interesting. A conductor I admire and yet knew nothing of.
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Offline aligreto

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1184 on: January 27, 2022, 03:04:35 AM »
Gems from the Philips Catalogue: https://youtu.be/1Nx2I0Nt3SA

I found the section on David Lloyd-Jones particularly interesting. A conductor I admire and yet knew nothing of.

I will give that a look later on.
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and leave no doubt.

Offline Pohjolas Daughter

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1185 on: January 27, 2022, 04:23:26 AM »
Gems from the Philips Catalogue: https://youtu.be/1Nx2I0Nt3SA

I found the section on David Lloyd-Jones particularly interesting. A conductor I admire and yet knew nothing of.
Thanks for that link.  It will be either some evening or early morning listening for me.  :)

How did you happen upon this channel by the way Irons?  By the way, had a chuckle when I clicked on the link and heard a very British-sounding voice saying that it was a sunny day in Los Angeles!  ;D

PD

Offline Irons

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1186 on: January 27, 2022, 08:47:01 AM »
Thanks for that link.  It will be either some evening or early morning listening for me.  :)

How did you happen upon this channel by the way Irons?  By the way, had a chuckle when I clicked on the link and heard a very British-sounding voice saying that it was a sunny day in Los Angeles!  ;D

PD

Funny you say that PD. I found it amusing with his cut-glass British accent he says "gitting" or "git". When in Los Angeles do as Los Angeles do. :D

Jokes aside, I find what he says about vinyl and beyond most interesting and worth sharing.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2022, 09:08:29 AM by Irons »
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Offline Pohjolas Daughter

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1187 on: January 27, 2022, 09:25:31 AM »
Funny you say that PD. I found it amusing with his cut-glass British accent he says "gitting" or "git". When in Los Angeles do as Los Angeles do. :D

Jokes aside, I find what he says about vinyl and beyond most interesting and worth sharing.
I look forward to checking it out.

Having fun doing a trip down memory lane....listening to Carole King's Tapestry.  So many great songs on that album.  See non-classical listening thread.



PD


Offline Irons

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1188 on: January 27, 2022, 09:30:46 AM »
I look forward to checking it out.

Having fun doing a trip down memory lane....listening to Carole King's Tapestry.  So many great songs on that album.  See non-classical listening thread.



PD

The cat what sold it! ;D
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Offline Pohjolas Daughter

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1189 on: January 27, 2022, 09:33:33 AM »

Offline Pohjolas Daughter

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1190 on: January 28, 2022, 07:49:02 AM »
And thank you both for your kind comments; I had missed them earlier.  :)

So, a question for our vinyl experts here.  When cleaning my Bach/Souzay LP the other day (see current listening thread), I noticed that the label is in French including "La Vox de son Maitre" and that it also says "Stereo & Gravure Universelle".

1)  How was this LP cut?  From what I understand, it's supposed to be playable with both stereo and mono cartridges.  I had listened to it with my stereo one (don't have a mono) and for the most part, it sounded wonderful.  A tiny and short bit of distortion in one section.  I believe though that it was recorded in mono (looking at Discogs).

2)Looking at the jacket, the text is either English or German and also says that it was printed in Germany.  Souzay was a Frenchman.  I found it rather strange that the LP labels would be in French, but no French text on the jacket (Thinking that they were catering towards the French market?).  Any thoughts/insights?



Note:  It looks like my copy (purchased used) was purchased at a discount store in the US.

Offline Irons

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1191 on: January 28, 2022, 08:53:59 AM »
And thank you both for your kind comments; I had missed them earlier.  :)

So, a question for our vinyl experts here.  When cleaning my Bach/Souzay LP the other day (see current listening thread), I noticed that the label is in French including "La Vox de son Maitre" and that it also says "Stereo & Gravure Universelle".

1)  How was this LP cut?  From what I understand, it's supposed to be playable with both stereo and mono cartridges.  I had listened to it with my stereo one (don't have a mono) and for the most part, it sounded wonderful.  A tiny and short bit of distortion in one section.  I believe though that it was recorded in mono (looking at Discogs).

2)Looking at the jacket, the text is either English or German and also says that it was printed in Germany.  Souzay was a Frenchman.  I found it rather strange that the LP labels would be in French, but no French text on the jacket (Thinking that they were catering towards the French market?).  Any thoughts/insights?



Note:  It looks like my copy (purchased used) was purchased at a discount store in the US.

Electrola is the German arm of EMI, PD. Great pressings every bit as good as those from UK, not sure they are not superior. The later one's are red with a smaller Nipper, early are white and gold. I'm a bit confused as I think, I need to check, "La Vox de Son Maitre" is French. A French pressing in a German sleeve makes no sense.

In the early days of stereo, labels so as not to restrict sales stated Stereo playable Mono instruction on the sleeve. Rest assured, you definitely have a stereo recording.

Edit: After further research - where would we be without Discogs! "La Vox de Son Maitre" is simply French for "His Master's Voice". The French arm for EMI is Pathé Marconi, but as I said in an earlier post the relationship of record labels through the LP era is very complicated.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2022, 09:12:37 AM by Irons »
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Offline Pohjolas Daughter

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1192 on: January 28, 2022, 09:38:21 AM »
Electrola is the German arm of EMI, PD. Great pressings every bit as good as those from UK, not sure they are not superior. The later one's are red with a smaller Nipper, early are white and gold. I'm a bit confused as I think, I need to check, "La Vox de Son Maitre" is French. A French pressing in a German sleeve makes no sense.

In the early days of stereo, labels so as not to restrict sales stated Stereo playable Mono instruction on the sleeve. Rest assured, you definitely have a stereo recording.

Edit: After further research - where would we be without Discogs! "La Vox de Son Maitre" is simply French for "His Master's Voice". The French arm for EMI is Pathé Marconi, but as I said in an earlier post the relationship of record labels through the LP era is very complicated.
Whoopsie, just noticed that I had left out the "i" in "voix" (or maybe autocorrect kicked in?) and yes, thanks, I knew what it meant and should have offered up a translation to have saved you the time!  ::)

Looks like whomever purchased it originally bought it in LA in 1973...which would make sense looking at the store's sticker on it [I had forgotten that someone had written on the inside back of the jacket where and when they had purchased it.].

The labels on the record are quite nice.  I can't find an image of one though.

PD
« Last Edit: January 28, 2022, 10:00:51 AM by Pohjolas Daughter »

Offline Spotted Horses

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1193 on: January 28, 2022, 10:04:29 AM »
1)  How was this LP cut?  From what I understand, it's supposed to be playable with both stereo and mono cartridges.  I had listened to it with my stereo one (don't have a mono) and for the most part, it sounded wonderful.  A tiny and short bit of distortion in one section.  I believe though that it was recorded in mono (looking at Discogs).

I don't know how well you remember your high school geometry, but mono LPs are always compatible with a stereo pickup, but not vice versa.

Refer to that attached sketch. In a stereo LP the left channel is encoded on one wall, the right channel on the other wall of the groove. As I've sketched it, the left channel moves the stylus up and to the right for positive signal, and the right channel moves the stylus down and to the right for positive signal. Suppose the right and left channel are identical. Then the two contributions result in cancelation of the up-down motion and addition of the left-right motion. If the left and right channels are not identical the stylus will also move up and down. In a mono LP the stylus only moves side to side and a stereo cartridge would just interpret this as identical left and right channels.

You could get into trouble playing a stereo record on a mono cartridge, because if the mono cartridge is only designed for horizontal motion of the stylus it may not have the flexibility for the stylus to move up and down, putting undue force on the groove.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2022, 10:06:06 AM by Spotted Horses »

Offline Pohjolas Daughter

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1194 on: January 28, 2022, 10:35:08 AM »
I don't know how well you remember your high school geometry, but mono LPs are always compatible with a stereo pickup, but not vice versa.

Refer to that attached sketch. In a stereo LP the left channel is encoded on one wall, the right channel on the other wall of the groove. As I've sketched it, the left channel moves the stylus up and to the right for positive signal, and the right channel moves the stylus down and to the right for positive signal. Suppose the right and left channel are identical. Then the two contributions result in cancelation of the up-down motion and addition of the left-right motion. If the left and right channels are not identical the stylus will also move up and down. In a mono LP the stylus only moves side to side and a stereo cartridge would just interpret this as identical left and right channels.

You could get into trouble playing a stereo record on a mono cartridge, because if the mono cartridge is only designed for horizontal motion of the stylus it may not have the flexibility for the stylus to move up and down, putting undue force on the groove.
  Thank you for the explanation (and diagrams!); it's been some time since I've read about the differences in movement between stereo and mono cartridges.  I had read something somewhere where someone had asked what they meant by the "Stereo and Gravure Universelle" which had confused me (long story).  I looked into getting a separate mono system but decided against it...tempting as it was though!  :)

PD

Offline Spotted Horses

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1195 on: January 28, 2022, 11:23:38 AM »
I may be repeating myself, but I think a different cartridge might be optimum for shellac records. I even notice that late LPs (60's and 70's) seem to be made of a different grade of vinyl than the really old LPs (Columbia mono LPs) even though technically they conform to the same microgroove format specification.

Offline aligreto

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1196 on: January 28, 2022, 03:44:30 PM »
Some tonearms allow for removeable head shells. This obviously allows for the interchange of heads with a different cartridge on each head shell i.e. either a stereo or mono cartridge on each head shell which is interchangeable. I have never owned a tonearm that allowed this swop over. I would certainly like to experience listening to a mono cartridge on a mono vinyl recording.
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and leave no doubt.

Offline Irons

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1197 on: January 29, 2022, 02:07:14 AM »
Some tonearms allow for removeable head shells. This obviously allows for the interchange of heads with a different cartridge on each head shell i.e. either a stereo or mono cartridge on each head shell which is interchangeable. I have never owned a tonearm that allowed this swop over. I would certainly like to experience listening to a mono cartridge on a mono vinyl recording.

The main problem is that a tonearm suitable for one cartridge is unsuitable for the other. I did for a time have two decks, one stereo the other mono. A previous preamp had a mono switch. Alas they have all gone! The second deck is now residing in a box in a spare bedroom. I miss the mono capability mainly because there is much less surface noise from old mono records played this way.
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Offline Pohjolas Daughter

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1198 on: January 29, 2022, 03:25:18 AM »
I may be repeating myself, but I think a different cartridge might be optimum for shellac records. I even notice that late LPs (60's and 70's) seem to be made of a different grade of vinyl than the really old LPs (Columbia mono LPs) even though technically they conform to the same microgroove format specification.
It's my understanding that during the 1970's when much of the world was struggling with various energy (oil) crisis that sometimes plants would crush up and reuse older recordings making for crappy-sounding records.  Who were the worst culprits for doing this?  Perhaps that is part of what you were referring to SH?

Or perhaps it had to do with the popularity and increased mass-production of records (or in addition to)?

Interesting thoughts about the use of a different cartridge for shellac.....one could have all kinds of different stereo setups!  8) >:D

The main problem is that a tonearm suitable for one cartridge is unsuitable for the other. I did for a time have two decks, one stereo the other mono. A previous preamp had a mono switch. Alas they have all gone! The second deck is now residing in a box in a spare bedroom. I miss the mono capability mainly because there is much less surface noise from old mono records played this way.
Perhaps time to haul it out Irons....get that baby working again!  :)

PD


Offline Spotted Horses

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #1199 on: January 29, 2022, 05:17:24 AM »
It's my understanding that during the 1970's when much of the world was struggling with various energy (oil) crisis that sometimes plants would crush up and reuse older recordings making for crappy-sounding records.  Who were the worst culprits for doing this?  Perhaps that is part of what you were referring to SH?

I think the main culprits were some of the American labels such as CBS.

My comment was based on a vague recollection that the old LPs I had collected (Columbia "ML" records from the early 50's) were not as glossy, maybe more a flat black rather than a glossy black. Maybe they were just old.