Author Topic: Thirty three and a third.  (Read 68927 times)

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Offline Irons

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #60 on: December 07, 2018, 01:48:11 AM »
Recorded at Abbey Road studios 25-27 March 1956. Producer: Walter Legge.



Beethoven's Grosse Fuge and Klemperer conducting the Philharmonia strings are made for each other. A monumental performance of a monumental work.
On paper the couplings are odd, but actually Walter Legge was shrewd. Considering the Grosse Fuge in the original form for string quartet was unintelligible to audiences at its first performances and Mozart wrote Adagio and Fugue K. 546 forty years before Beethoven's work, then Mozart's Adagio and Fugue is not far off being as revolutionary. Eine Kleine Nachtmusik it is not.
To have these works similar in scope and form following each other would be too much. Sandwiched between them is a very fine Serenta Notturna which is a complete contrast. The Philharmonia of the 1950's is my favourite orchestra and enjoying especially the contribution in SN of Manoug Parikian (1st violin) David Wise (2nd violin) Herbert Downes (viola) and James Merrett (double bass).
The image on the front cover is of Otto Klemperer's hands resting on the score of Grosse Fuge.
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Offline Irons

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #61 on: December 09, 2018, 01:34:16 AM »
Seeing aligreto's post of the Brahms Double Concerto on "What are you listening to now" thread I was reminded of a long held belief that with CD you are able to pick and choose the way a collection of music takes shape. Vinyl isn't like that, in a way it chooses you, not you choose it. The Double Concerto is a fine work but an overload to have on the shelves -

Bruno Walter with Francescatti/Fournier.
George Szell with Oistrakh/Rostropovich.
Paul Kletzki with Ferras/Tortelier  (two copies, EMI and WRC).
Ferenc Fricsay with Schneiderhan/Starker.
Bernard Haitink with Szeryng/Starker.
Karel Ancerl with Suk/Navarra.

The closest work to the Brahms, Beethoven's Triple Concerto, I do not own a single copy!
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Offline aligreto

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #62 on: December 09, 2018, 03:35:16 AM »
Seeing aligreto's post of the Brahms Double Concerto on "What are you listening to now" thread I was reminded of a long held belief that with CD you are able to pick and choose the way a collection of music takes shape. Vinyl isn't like that, in a way it chooses you, not you choose it. The Double Concerto is a fine work but an overload to have on the shelves -

Bruno Walter with Francescatti/Fournier.
George Szell with Oistrakh/Rostropovich.
Paul Kletzki with Ferras/Tortelier  (two copies, EMI and WRC).
Ferenc Fricsay with Schneiderhan/Starker.
Bernard Haitink with Szeryng/Starker.
Karel Ancerl with Suk/Navarra.

The closest work to the Brahms, Beethoven's Triple Concerto, I do not own a single copy!

I think that there is a large element of truth in that. Even to this day, and after all of my collecting, I am still very likely to get a WOW factor if I spot an LP that excites me. I would not have the same reaction with a CD even though I would buy it. Funny that. 
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and leave no doubt.

Offline Irons

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #63 on: December 09, 2018, 08:06:27 AM »
I love it! Flipping through a stack of records and coming across something interesting. Terry O'Sullivan of Loricraft Audio said to me once "I can't stop buying them"! Sadly nor can I.
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Offline Irons

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #64 on: December 12, 2018, 08:29:36 AM »


Big boxes featuring a single instrumentalist or conductor became popular with CD. Not so common on LP which is a pity. There were a few which mostly featured pianists, people like Richter and Kempff amongst others. I have always admired Clara Haskil and Philips have done her proud with this set of nine LPs. Setting out on a Haskil odyssey I started with disc1, one of the greatest piano sonatas, Schubert D.960. When an artist such as Haskil plays such an important work, for a layman to even attempt to analyse is ridiculous. Just sit back and enjoy which is what I did. She is well known for her Mozart, I am looking forward to Schumann and Scarlatti played by Clara Haskil.   
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Offline aligreto

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #65 on: December 12, 2018, 09:00:21 AM »


Big boxes featuring a single instrumentalist or conductor became popular with CD. Not so common on LP which is a pity. There were a few which mostly featured pianists, people like Richter and Kempff amongst others. I have always admired Clara Haskil and Philips have done her proud with this set of nine LPs. Setting out on a Haskil odyssey I started with disc1, one of the greatest piano sonatas, Schubert D.960. When an artist such as Haskil plays such an important work, for a layman to even attempt to analyse is ridiculous. Just sit back and enjoy which is what I did. She is well known for her Mozart, I am looking forward to Schumann and Scarlatti played by Clara Haskil.

That looks like a very nice set indeed.
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and leave no doubt.

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #66 on: December 12, 2018, 09:11:10 AM »
Big boxes featuring a single instrumentalist or conductor became popular with CD. Not so common on LP which is a pity.

The reason seems obvious to me. CDs are cheap, LPs were expensive. I don't mind buying a CD set for which I am only interested in half the content. No one in those days wanted to pay for a duplicate LP or an LP that they were not interested listening to.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 09:36:16 AM by Ghost of Baron Scarpia »

Offline Irons

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #67 on: December 13, 2018, 12:30:44 AM »
The reason seems obvious to me. CDs are cheap, LPs were expensive. I don't mind buying a CD set for which I am only interested in half the content. No one in those days wanted to pay for a duplicate LP or an LP that they were not interested listening to.

Good point.
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Offline aligreto

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #68 on: December 22, 2018, 05:55:19 AM »
I must confess that one aspect of the vinyl world that I have never liked is the Auto-Coupling back in the days of record changers and the sequence of play necessitated by that. I just want to moan about this as I have recently listened to three older LP box sets presented in this way.


It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and leave no doubt.

Offline Irons

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #69 on: December 24, 2018, 07:40:19 AM »
I must confess that one aspect of the vinyl world that I have never liked is the Auto-Coupling back in the days of record changers and the sequence of play necessitated by that. I just want to moan about this as I have recently listened to three older LP box sets presented in this way.




A pain. Perhaps not quite as bad, but for me off-putting is box sets with a single work on two separate LPs. For example first two movements on second side and movements three and four on the first side of the following LP of the set.
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Offline aligreto

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #70 on: December 24, 2018, 08:01:43 AM »
A pain. Perhaps not quite as bad, but for me off-putting is box sets with a single work on two separate LPs. For example first two movements on second side and movements three and four on the first side of the following LP of the set.

That one is not such a bad one for me.
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and leave no doubt.

Offline Irons

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #71 on: December 24, 2018, 08:09:15 AM »
That one is not such a bad one for me.
And you are right. What is the difference of turning a disc over or reaching for a second one? But I passed on a box set only last week for this very reason.
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Offline JBS

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #72 on: December 24, 2018, 08:15:21 AM »
And you are right. What is the difference of turning a disc over or reaching for a second one? But I passed on a box set only last week for this very reason.

Some automatic record changers might have been able to flip over the LP, but most did not.  Hence the sequencing over separate LPs.

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

Offline aligreto

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #73 on: December 24, 2018, 08:47:58 AM »
And you are right. What is the difference of turning a disc over or reaching for a second one? But I passed on a box set only last week for this very reason.

That is a shame but that is what it is.
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and leave no doubt.

Offline Irons

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #74 on: December 27, 2018, 04:23:43 AM »


Pougnet, Riddle and Pini made some excellent string trio recordings for Westminster in Vienna during the early 1950's. EMI waited over ten years to release them under licence in the UK, and then only for a short period. They are well worth looking out for and when they turn up I do not hesitate. A Mozart Divertimento K. 563 is outstanding. Jean Pougnet, who's father was a conductor, was a top violinist of his time and also appeared as a soloist. His RVW "The Lark Ascending" is my favourite recording. There is a lot of competition for the Mozart K. 563 but less for the early Beethoven trios and it is these recordings I treasure the most.
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Offline aligreto

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #75 on: December 29, 2018, 05:14:44 AM »


Pougnet, Riddle and Pini made some excellent string trio recordings for Westminster in Vienna during the early 1950's. EMI waited over ten years to release them under licence in the UK, and then only for a short period. They are well worth looking out for and when they turn up I do not hesitate. A Mozart Divertimento K. 563 is outstanding. Jean Pougnet, who's father was a conductor, was a top violinist of his time and also appeared as a soloist. His RVW "The Lark Ascending" is my favourite recording. There is a lot of competition for the Mozart K. 563 but less for the early Beethoven trios and it is these recordings I treasure the most.

Noted and thank you.
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and leave no doubt.

Offline Pohjolas Daughter

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #76 on: January 02, 2019, 05:54:22 AM »
Thanks. I didn't know that. As I mentioned earlier any history of a record company is a tangled mess that defies logic. What I know of the US market is sketchy at best. By your description STS could be the US version of "Ace of Diamonds"  I would not describe them as dull though. In some cases the "Ace of Diamonds" reissues are better sonically then the SXL originals. One thing I have heard loud and clear across the Atlantic is that gold label Decca pressings are horrible. American Decca had no connection (historically they did) with the UK company and due to naming rights Decca were called "London" in the US.  1978 sounds about the time that the Decca factory in New Malden on the outskirts of London closed down. Production for the UK was switched to Holland.

I made the mistake about 10(?) years ago buying a label Decca record (one with Casals) with a pretty pink and gold cover.  Well, it didn't do it any favors that it needed cleaning and was before I had purchased an RCM, but even after that, it was so horribly noisy!  I later read on another forum about the gold label's reputation and avoid them.  When looking around at used records, I am quite happy when I see the London ones--but pressed in the UK.

PD

Offline Pohjolas Daughter

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #77 on: January 02, 2019, 06:14:56 AM »
The reason seems obvious to me. CDs are cheap, LPs were expensive. I don't mind buying a CD set for which I am only interested in half the content. No one in those days wanted to pay for a duplicate LP or an LP that they were not interested listening to.

I remember a friend (who is a bit older) telling me that when she started buying LPs that it cost her a week's salary to purchase one of Wagner's operas.

PD

Online Biffo

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #78 on: January 02, 2019, 07:19:29 AM »
I remember a friend (who is a bit older) telling me that when she started buying LPs that it cost her a week's salary to purchase one of Wagner's operas.

PD

When I started buying LPs in 1968/69 a full-price disc cost £2-3s-9d, a bargain price Music for Pleasure disc cost 10/9d. In the summer of 1969 I earned £9-12-0 per week working as a storeman. At the time the exchange rate was $2.40 to the pound. No idea what these prices translate into nowadays.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 07:23:54 AM by Biffo »

Offline Irons

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Re: Thirty three and a third.
« Reply #79 on: January 06, 2019, 04:14:58 AM »


Aligreto featured a post of a LP from the Contour label. Serious collectors of vinyl turn their collective nose up at these reissues which is brilliant news for aligreto and myself. They are plentiful and inexpensive, on average about £2 but are a treasure-trove of great music from the top artists of the day at DG, Philips and Decca. Each back-cover has prominently printed "This record has been specially pressed to classical record standards". I actually think they are! Both pressings and transfers are top quality, the only criticism is that the vinyl is thin, I do not put as much importance to weight of vinyl as some other collectors do.
An interesting side issue is the famous Ansermet Decca recording of Scheherzade which is coupled with Borodin's Polovtsian Dances of which a good early pressing you would expect to pay £50. The same recording on Contour is superior for the simple reason Polovtsian Dances is omitted allowing for wider groove spacing for Scheherzade, and costs a fraction of the Decca original. I have both and prefer the sound of the Contour pressing.
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.