George Bush Snr

[vandermolen]

Lots of sympathetic coverage on the BBC this morning and an interesting interview with former British Prime-Minister John Major about his relationship and friendship with George Bush Snr. He spoke in the highest regard about the former U.S. president but said that his focus on foreign policy may have contributed to him being seen as less successful in his domestic policy, contributing to his electoral defeat in 1992. He had visited him several times in recent months and clearly liked him very much.

[Todd]

At the time of this writing, the last proper president.  The ADA, the 1990 OBRA, a properly executed regional war pursued for the correct strategic reasons, and a proper response to the collapse of the main geopolitical rival of the US.  Maybe the next president will be as good.

[vandermolen]

At the time of this writing, the last proper president.  The ADA, the 1990 OBRA, a properly executed regional war pursued for the correct strategic reasons, and a proper response to the collapse of the main geopolitical rival of the US.  Maybe the next president will be as good.

Interesting - thanks.

[Florestan]

God rest his soul!

[Ken B]

The Washington Post was characteristically contemptuous

https://mobile.twitter.com/WillOremus/status/1068731765794123778

In contrast, Clinton, Trump, and Gorbachev were gracious.

[SimonNZ]

At the time of this writing, the last proper president.  The ADA, the 1990 OBRA, a properly executed regional war pursued for the correct strategic reasons, and a proper response to the collapse of the main geopolitical rival of the US.  Maybe the next president will be as good.

Oh really? is that the one with the near total destruction of civilian infrastructure, and massive civilian casualties through bombing dwarfed by the ongoing and far higher civilian causalities caused by exposure to depleted uranium? And where they left without removing the dictator?

Now compare with the figures from Obama's much maligned drone strikes.

Or is the war you were referring to the invasion of Panama? ("Operation Just Cause", ffs)

Also: if you're underwhelmed by Dim Son's presidency then those criticisms can be laid at Poppy's doorstep for having elevated him, putting dynasty over country.

[arpeggio]

In spite of his flaws, even great leaders have made mistakes, Bush senior was the last good Republican president the United States had.  The Republicans have gone downhill since Bush senior.  Heaven can only guess what type of moron they would put in the presidency after Trump.

[Ghost of Baron Scarpia]

He was a decent man and comported himself with dignity. His war record record speaks for itself. (I'm waiting for Trump to denigrate it, "I like war heroes that weren't shot down.") He was a steady hand during the breakup of the Soviet Union.

There are some things that do him so credit.

There were the "Willie Horton" ads, a race-baiting campaign that blamed Dukakis for a murder committed by a black man on some sort of prison release. Dukakis had no hand in the program, although the crime was committed while Dukakis was Governor.

The Iraq war was not a great succes in the long term. It was good to see the U.S. act in a forthright manner. Bush told Hussein to retreat from Kuwait by a certain date or the US would intervene, and the US intervened just as he said we would. He built a broad coalition to support the invasion, which was a military success. But the US withdrew with the assumption that Hussein would fall, except he didn't fall. Many Iraqi civilians died, and they were still stuck with Hussein. Shiite forces tried to take over but the US failed to support them. The world was left with the awkward military aftermath - no fly zones, etc. In the end when Hussein was toppled in the second war Iraq came to be dominated by Iran-aligned Shiite groups. Hard to see that as a good outcome.

When the US fell into recession late in Bush's presidency he seemed remote and took the view that the economy would fix itself, no need to worry. Maybe that was true, but it wasn't what the country needed to hear from the President at the time. That is what led to his downfall. If his messaging had been better, perhaps we would have been spared Clinton.

[Florestan]

He was the US President which (over)saw the general Fall of Communism, and did not oppose the German Reunification. This is enough for me to think of him as of a hero.

[flyingdutchman]

The last proper president we had was Barack Obama

[vandermolen]

He was a decent man and comported himself with dignity. His war record record speaks for itself. (I'm waiting for Trump to denigrate it, "I like war heroes that weren't shot down.") He was a steady hand during the breakup of the Soviet Union.

There are some things that do him so credit.

There were the "Willie Horton" ads, a race-baiting campaign that blamed Dukakis for a murder committed by a black man on some sort of prison release. Dukakis had no hand in the program, although the crime was committed while Dukakis was Governor.

The Iraq war was not a great succes in the long term. It was good to see the U.S. act in a forthright manner. Bush told Hussein to retreat from Kuwait by a certain date or the US would intervene, and the US intervened just as he said we would. He built a broad coalition to support the invasion, which was a military success. But the US withdrew with the assumption that Hussein would fall, except he didn't fall. Many Iraqi civilians died, and they were still stuck with Hussein. Shiite forces tried to take over but the US failed to support them. The world was left with the awkward military aftermath - no fly zones, etc. In the end when Hussein was toppled in the second war Iraq came to be dominated by Iran-aligned Shiite groups. Hard to see that as a good outcome.

When the US fell into recession late in Bush's presidency he seemed remote and took the view that the economy would fix itself, no need to worry. Maybe that was true, but it wasn't what the country needed to hear from the President at the time. That is what led to his downfall. If his messaging had been better, perhaps we would have been spared Clinton.

Interesting analysis. In retrospect the failure to support the Shiite forces against Hussein led to disastrous consequences.

[Jaakko Keskinen]

He was the US President which (over)saw the general Fall of Communism, and did not oppose the German Reunification. This is enough for me to think of him as of a hero.

I personally don't see communism so much as evil as damn impractical. Sure, I can understand, after the horrors of Stalin's and Mao's regime it is easy to label it as evil but it must be remembered that theirs was never true Communism. Like I said, it's damn near impossible to achieve true communism. I'm sure Marx never claimed mass murder to be a part of it. Impractical, and certainly wouldn't ever recommend it because it attracts base personalities and the worst possible outcomes we all know... But that logic could be applied to many religions as well, should we forbid them too?

[Ghost of Baron Scarpia]

I personally don't see communism so much as evil as damn impractical. Sure, I can understand, after the horrors of Stalin's and Mao's regime it is easy to label it as evil but it must be remembered that theirs was never true Communism. Like I said, it's damn near impossible to achieve true communism. I'm sure Marx never claimed mass murder to be a part of it. Impractical, and certainly wouldn't ever recommend it because it attracts base personalities and the worst possible outcomes we all know... But that logic could be applied to many religions as well, should we forbid them too?

I'm not sure Marx advocated communism, so much as believed it was the inevitable endpoint of political/economic evolution.

I don't think communism is good, even in an ideal manifestation. I think what works best is capitalism with strong socialist elements. The marketplace is a marvelous system of optimizing economic systems, but it must be bound by laws and regulations which constrain it so that it optimists the wellbeing of the population as a whole, not the wellbeing of a small fraction of wealthy individuals. The US and some other countries are failing in that regard, recently. The wealthy can become entrenched and the poor locked in poverty and social programs are required to distribute opportunity broadly.

[Florestan]

I'm sure Marx never claimed mass murder to be a part of it.

I'm not sure Marx advocated communism, so much as believed it was the inevitable endpoint of political/economic evolution.

If The Communist Manifesto is not advocating communism, then words have lost their meanings.

[Ghost of Baron Scarpia]

If The Communist Manifesto is not advocating communism, then words have lost their meanings.

It's been a long time since I read any Marx, but it is my recollection that he advocates communism in the same sense that a weatherman advocates a hurricane.

[Florestan]

It's been a long time since I read any Marx

No offense meant but it shows. 

Normally I wouldn't urge anyone to waste his time on drivel, but if you feel like it please read The Communist Manifesto. It's not too long --- this being perhaps its only quality. You'll be surprised to learn that many of the... but hush, I'll not be a spoiler.

No, really, try it. In the light of your remark that "I think what works best is capitalism with strong socialist elements" --- and I'm fully aware that (1) socialism does not equate communism, and (2) "socialist" has become a meaningless term of abuse, exactly as "fascist" has --- I'm confident your rejection of communism will be stronger than before (re)reading it.

[Ghost of Baron Scarpia]

My rejection of communism does not rest on the rhetoric or arguments used to support it, but on the fact that the central idea is unworkable, and on the results that have been produced. Marx had a lot of insight into the instabilities that capitalism is subject to, but he did not understand that an unstable system can be stabilized by external controls.

[Florestan]

My rejection of communism does not rest on the rhetoric or arguments used to support it, but on the fact that the central idea is unworkable, and on the results that have been produced.

I agree completely.

Marx had a lot of insight into the instabilities that capitalism is subject to, but he did not understand that an unstable system can be stabilized by external controls.

And yet a lot of fools (academics included) still consider him a genius... 

[Ghost of Baron Scarpia]

And yet a lot of fools (academics included) still consider him a genius...

I consider him a genius. He had insights that transformed the understanding of economics. His application of those insights was disastrously wrong. He died before anyone tried to seriously put them into practice. He might well have been as horrified as anyone to witness the results.

[Florestan]

I consider him a genius.

Woooopss... 

He died before anyone tried to seriously put them into practice.

Imho, this does not exonerate him in the least. Ideas have consequences. Nietzsche learned it the hard way, albeit just as posthumously as Marx.

He might well have been as horrified as anyone to witness the results.

We'll never know but if his writings are anything to judge by, I'm quite skeptical of it.