Revisiting Brahms and his symphonies

[Ghost of Baron Scarpia]

Well, now I feel responsible.

I hope you like it as much as I do. I wouldn't put it forward as someones only recording of the Brahms symphonies, but it is an interesting alternative to the "definitive" recordings.

[Daverz]

You make the Ansermet sound intriguing and so I've just ordered it. The Maazel sounds worthy of investment in time too, but priorities mean it should wait.

If it makes a difference, the Maazel was a favorite of Donny Vroon*.   

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* The nutty editor of American Record Guide.

[André]

Vroon is a crusty, opinionated critic, subject to whims and strange fads, but I enjoyed his magazine, to which I subscribed for some 20 years. In the end, though he was becoming tiresome.

[amw]

Unrelated but I had a dream in which someone was recording an early version of the Brahms 1st symphony, some of whose features included:

- the orchestra included a piano
- the two middle movements were completely different—I think the slow movement was in C minor and very elegiac
- the 3rd movement was kind of a Mendelssohnian/Berlioz "fairy scherzo"
- the last movement had no "Alphorn" theme
- the "Beethoven 9th" theme in the last movement started out forte accompanied by trumpet fanfares and drumrolls
- instead of coming back at the start of the development, it came back after the reprise of the 2nd theme
- the coda was much longer and included some of the material from the Academic Festival Overture
- I was in the orchestra, playing violin (which I haven't played in years and definitely can't play at a professional level) so I couldn't always hear what was going on with the rest of the orchestra in louder sections
- everyone just accepted this version as a thing, like, "oh yeah, it's the 1866 version of the Brahms 1st, I love Klemperer's old recording with the London Philharmonic"

It was very weird and makes me think I probably listen to too much classical music if this is what my dreams end up being like

[Ken B]

I've not heard it, but it is well regarded. Just keep in mind he is....somewhat divisive on these boards.

I like it a lot. I think it's Brian's favourite.

[Ghost of Baron Scarpia]

If it makes a difference, the Maazel was a favorite of Donny Vroon*.   

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* The nutty editor of American Record Guide.

I like Maazel a lot. The tempos are generally relaxed, which tends to cause a loss of momentum in the fast movements, but a lot of orchestral detail is heard and the slow movements are really extraordinary.

[Biffo]

Thanks, mate. It all adds to expanding my frame of reference.

Of that list the Barbirolli/Wiener Philharmoniker stands out as one I have and enjoy. The thing is, I don't have the vocabulary to employ in pursuit of  describing why I like stuff. But the Barbirolli sounds almost exotic to me in comparison to the other (one dozen or so) cycles I own. While it's not as if he's taking liberties it seems he's less bridled or curbed by what was contemporary or went before.

Szell - I have that and find it detailed and hugely disciplined. A real bizarro way to put it is that if Szell was a boxer he would be one who telegraphs his punches, yet that doesn't really diminish the impact. It's coming, you see it, but it still makes a mark. 

Don't mean to add to yer woes, but one that's maybe worthwhile is the Eschenbach with the Houston Symphony. It's like some kind of romantic interpretation that frequently casts a respectful wink to a classical past. Clumsy description, but there ye go.

When I first heard the Barbirolli/VPO cycle I found it too slow, much later I bought the remastered release and enjoyed it a lot more; perhaps now I would describe it as spacious.

Coincidentally, last week I was reading Barbirolli - A Chronicle of a Career  by Raymond Holden and it seems Barbirolli himself didn't like the Brahms recordings. The Vienna Philharmonic were awkward and he didn't enjoy the recording process or the result. There are two fine live recordings of No 2, in reasonable sound, with the Boston Symphony Orchestra and the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra. There is also a 1952 Halle recording of No 3 with rather ropey sound. Not sure about other recordings of Nos 1 & 4.

[71 dB]

...I haven't listened to a Brahms symphony in ages,...

                ..., plodding versions I have heard in recent years.

Logical contradiction maybe? 

[NikF4]

Thanks for the further suggestions, insights and thoughts. It all makes for interesting reading. When I quit being so cheap I'll look into buying more than one cycle at a time.

[Madiel]

It was very weird and makes me think I probably listen to too much classical music if this is what my dreams end up being like

There's an equal risk that your dreams are affected by spending too much time on classical music discussion boards...

[amw]

True and fair.

[jwinter]

I've been rummaging through this set recently, and gave the Brahms 4 a spin...



It's good but a bit manic, definitely on the fast side once it gets going -- in climaxes it seems like the strings are hurtling forward so fast that the rest of the orchestra is having trouble keeping up, so that while the whole thing has wonderful energy and a send of forward propulsion, a bit like Furtwangler, yet at times IMO it goes a bit too far and ends up sounding out of control, if not a bit sloppy and unfocused.  So a bit of a mixed bag, but very nicely recorded, and of course beautiful string sound. 

It's too idiosyncratic to be a top recommendation, but well worth hearing if you enjoy Stokowski.  There's some good stuff in this set, including a Brahms 1 and a really outstanding Mahler 2...