Started by bwv 1080, February 07, 2019, 04:24:24 AM
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Quote from: Rinaldo on May 02, 2020, 03:33:45 AMI heartily disagree, John.Sure, some threads veer towards ugliness from time to time. But the diverse (at least agewise) makeup of this forum makes for an inspiring and thought provoking reading. Uncompromising? Opinionated? I've seen worse, much worse. Notwithstanding the occasional flare-up, y'all here are a pretty decent bunch.
Quote from: arpeggio on May 02, 2020, 08:09:46 AMWe can not change people's minds.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 02, 2020, 10:37:40 AMIf you wish to spread your Socialist beliefs and lies, then knock yourself out. I'm merely pointing out that you aren't some kind of prophet sent from the Bernie Sanders campaign to deliver gospel truths. I don't really give a damn what you believe in, because I'm more than 100% against your political beliefs. I'm not brainwashed and neither is anyone else who disagrees with you. Deal with it.
Quote from: SimonNZ on May 02, 2020, 05:21:50 PMMaybe you can't change people's minds - or at least about their core values - but you can try to correct misinformation and misconceptions, which isn't nothing.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 02, 2020, 12:38:05 PMI don't wish to divulge my political beliefs on this forum, because, quite frankly, 71 dB, I don't want any further division between myself and other members. It's bad enough that apparently I'm a "self-centred, childish drama queen" according to several members here. No need in furthering that divide.
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on May 04, 2020, 12:27:06 AMThe problem with discussing politics (and "changing someone's -- rarely one's own -- mind) are at least partially rooted in two facts:We usually start with the end-point of an opinion, not its source. If we are interested in why people think the way they do, it helps to know what they ultimately hope the achievement/goal of their opinion is. Most of the time, we will find that they are significantly similar to our own. Already then, we realize that we are talking 'merely' about the "how", not, in essence, about the "what". Assuming good intentions, or simply asking about them, if we are not sure, helps such discourse immensely. Doesn't get rid of the ideological part that makes conversing about these topics difficult, but minimizes its influence. Not that I'm not as guilty as most of us in being inconsistent in applying this, but I try to assume (whenever level-headed enough), that those who hold political ideas contrary to mine, that they still hold similar social ideas. They wish to live in a society worth living. (Although even that, of course, can be an element of self-rationalization... along the lines of the patronizing idea: "s/he wants the same thing, it's just that I know better how to get there.) The other aspect is the fact that politics is inseparable of ideology and our idea of self. In that, it's much closer to religion than science or music. If we expect someone to change their opinion, we are essentially asking them to change their idea of self. But the idea of self is deeply ingrained in us, obviously, and expresses itself in the way we dress, the kind of people we surround ourselves with, which coffee shop we go to, what music we listen to or profess to like. It's an immodest goal, to say the least, to ask someone else to change any aspect of that... especially knowing how we are usually loath to do the same.And yet, from civilized discourse about such essential matters rises our ability as societies (be it a community or a country or a forum like this... all heterogeneous in different ways) to grow. And, perhaps, even to avoid mistakes. And no matter how much we disagree on such matters, at least in this forum we can all agree, in the end, that Bach is the greatest composer and that anyone who doesn't is a degenerate dummy with tin cans for ears.** P.S. And yes, I am aware that this is essentially only rephrasing what others, for example like Mirror Image in his post just above, have said elsewhere in this thread.
Quote from: arpeggio on May 02, 2020, 08:09:46 AMWe can not change people's minds.If a person believes in Darwin, there is nothing than can be done.
Quote from: 71 dB on May 04, 2020, 04:20:08 AMSimply don't post about politics if you don't wish to divulge your political beliefs.
Quote from: SimonNZ on May 12, 2020, 06:27:25 PMTC is illustrative of the quixotic task of trying to keep politics out of all conversations. A lot of music was informed by and written in response to the surrounding politics, and discussing the music and composer means discussing the politics.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 12, 2020, 06:33:09 PMBut where does one draw the line? It's one thing to discuss politics and it's another to discuss them the way they're carried on here with the endless parade of ad homs and constant belittling.
Quote from: FelixSkodi on May 12, 2020, 06:38:47 PMIt sounds as if they should make use of the ignore function then.
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