Consider banning politics

Started by bwv 1080, February 07, 2019, 04:24:24 AM

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SimonNZ

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on June 08, 2020, 08:58:39 AM
I wrote you a PM on Friday which you haven't yet taken the time to answer, so I don't feel unduly upset by your impatience.

8)

You asked me to put together an argument to be presented to the mods, but I feel I've already said everything I needed to say upthread here.

And as time goes on and the thread attracts more posters and as you post there yourself then the answer to my request is really just a simple "no", isn't it?

That's fine. That's your collective prerogative. But you might as well have just said no. Am I really being "impatient" now for something else?

Its okay. It is what it is and I'm done with the gripe.

Madiel

#121
Quote from: greg on June 05, 2020, 10:59:50 AM
You all agree but realize that online (and IRL) safe spaces are possibly the primary cause for the strong political division in the US.

The cause of the strong political division in the US is sensible, moderate people becoming exhausted at having to deal with the way that extremists can energise their base through social media.

Places like Facebook and Youtube are often echo chambers (not "safe spaces" FFS). For years, they had algorithms that encouraged people to see things that they would already like, because they'd stay on the sites longer. It took a very long time for those companies to realise the consequences of that.

Where you go wrong is expecting a message board like this one to be able reverse the tide, with the frankly ridiculous suggestion to bully the bullies back (seriously, did you try this in high school? How did that go?). Yes, we don't energise the extremists here, or don't want to, but you think we ought to have to deal with them and the growth in politics as some kind of entertainment, a sort of digital bullfighting.

The only way a site like GMG can stand against that is to kick out the people who troll and treat politics as sport. Something the moderators seem to have zero intention of doing.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

André

I agree, but I'm not sure much can be done. I suppose the mods don't want to turn them into free speech martyrs.

Ratliff

Quote from: Madiel on June 08, 2020, 03:03:21 PMThe only way a site like GMG can stand against that is to kick out the people who troll and treat politics as sport. Something the moderators seem to have zero intention of doing.

That sounds great, until they decide to kick you out. I find the situation here tolerable. I don't expect to have meaningful political discussion, but occasionally I feel the need to vent a little.

Madiel

Quote from: André on June 08, 2020, 03:37:15 PM
I agree, but I'm not sure much can be done. I suppose the mods don't want to turn them into free speech martyrs.

It's a music discussion board, not a general message board. Which does of course raise questions about whether to just ban such discussions and raises issues about The Diner generally.

But honestly, that's the answer to the whole "free speech" crowd. No-one in their right minds would think that they could go to their local chamber music group, or tennis club, or wine appreciation society, and make everyone else's lives miserable by constantly talking about politics.

What we have here is a side room, off from the main meeting, where we let people talk politics. We don't HAVE to have that room open. We could shut it. Or we could have different rules for it. Whatever, ultimately it's up to the moderators. But the notion that there's an inherent right to have that space and to say absolutely anything the hell you want in there, and then everyone has to carry on in the main meeting space as if all of that never happened?

"Free speech" has never, despite what some people think, meant freedom from consequences or from rules. All it's ever meant, even in the USA, is freedom from the government punishing you for it. And GMG ain't the government. Any "free speech" martyr who can't reason their way through that distinction is just providing confirmation that their political views weren't worth listening to in the first place.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Madiel

#125
Quote from: Baron Scarpia on June 08, 2020, 03:50:21 PM
That sounds great, until they decide to kick you out. I find the situation here tolerable. I don't expect to have meaningful political discussion, but occasionally I feel the need to vent a little.

Why don't you expect to have meaningful political discussion? And what are you venting about? There's a big difference between venting about political news and making fun of other posters.

Plus the ratio of posting approaches matters a hell of a lot.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Ratliff

Quote from: Madiel on June 08, 2020, 03:51:13 PM
Why don't you expect to have meaningful political discussion?

Because it's the internet?

Madiel

Quote from: Baron Scarpia on June 10, 2020, 02:43:55 PM
Because it's the internet?

Do you expect to have meaningful musical discussion on the internet?

"The internet" is mostly made up of physical human beings typing away (there are certainly bots out there, but I suspect not on GMG). The only reason discussion on the internet doesn't proceed the same way as offline discussion is if we allow to people treat it as different. Which generally comes down to anonymity. I don't think that somewhere like a message board, with frankly a relatively small community, qualifies as a place where there's genuine anonymity.  We're interacting with the same people regularly, even if we use screen handles rather than legal names.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Que

#128
Quote from: Baron Scarpia on June 08, 2020, 03:50:21 PM
I don't expect to have meaningful political discussion, but occasionally I feel the need to vent a little.

This comment puts your complaint on the new USA Politics thread about "intrusive" moderating into an interesting perspective.
Because what you seem to look for, is not on offer. Not anymore, anyway.

Q

Madiel

I congratulate the moderators on the new thread.

I have no intention of personally participating in it, not least because it's already clear that some people can't cope with the requirements... though maybe it will settle down in time. Best of luck.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Ratliff

Quote from: Que on June 11, 2020, 01:20:06 AM
This comment puts your complaint on the new USA Politics thread about "intrusive" moderating into an interesting perspective.
Because what you seem to look for, is not on offer. Not anymore, anyway.

Q

Thanks for the notice.

Mirror Image

Quote from: Madiel on June 11, 2020, 01:39:15 AM
I congratulate the moderators on the new thread.

I have no intention of personally participating in it, not least because it's already clear that some people can't cope with the requirements... though maybe it will settle down in time. Best of luck.

+1 If they can't cope with the new rules of political discussion, then they can leave like the others. People seem to not come to this forum for music anymore and I find that distressing and actually embarrassing. Thankfully, there are quite a few members interested in posting about music still, but many of the longtime members have drifted off into the political thread and it has turned out to be a point-of-no-return for them.

Florestan

Quote from: Mirror Image on June 11, 2020, 07:30:15 AM
many of the longtime members have drifted off into the political thread and it has turned out to be a point-of-no-return for them.

I'm not that sure about "many", John. A few, rather. And I can think of only one single longtime member whose interest has been exclusively politics in the last years.
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Mirror Image

Quote from: Florestan on June 11, 2020, 07:34:48 AM
I'm not that sure about "many", John. A few, rather. And I can think of only one single longtime member whose interest has been exclusively politics in the last years.

Yes, but you can see a trend in their posting as of late where only a few posts are made about music and the rest are about politics.

Florestan

Quote from: Mirror Image on June 11, 2020, 07:40:32 AM
Yes, but you can see a trend in their posting as of late where only a few posts are made about music and the rest are about politics.

Sad but true.
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Karl Henning

Quote from: Mirror Image on June 11, 2020, 07:40:32 AM
Yes, but you can see a trend in their posting as of late where only a few posts are made about music and the rest are about politics.

My musical efforts this week have been otherwise concentrated.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot


Madiel

Quote from: Mirror Image on June 11, 2020, 07:30:15 AM
+1 If they can't cope with the new rules of political discussion, then they can leave like the others. People seem to not come to this forum for music anymore and I find that distressing and actually embarrassing. Thankfully, there are quite a few members interested in posting about music still, but many of the longtime members have drifted off into the political thread and it has turned out to be a point-of-no-return for them.

Yes. I find "I can't vent about politics, I have to genuinely discuss it" an extremely bizarre reason to leave a classical music forum, but there you are.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Mirror Image

Quote from: Madiel on June 11, 2020, 02:16:12 PM
Yes. I find "I can't vent about politics, I have to genuinely discuss it" an extremely bizarre reason to leave a classical music forum, but there you are.

You and I are of the same mind about this it seems, Madiel.

greg

Was my post deleted without explanation or is it just my imagination?

I don't care how it was perceived, technically it was still on topic. There was a point to it, if someone can't see the point then that's completely their fault for lack of understanding.  ::)
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