Schumann Fantasia in C

[Herman]

I think it's safe to say there are quite a number of unforgettable live versions of the Fantasia: Arrau, Fiorentino, Horowitz, Richter.

[Mandryka]

I think it's safe to say there are quite a number of unforgettable live versions of the Fantasia: Arrau, Fiorentino, Horowitz, Richter.

What Horowitz and Arrau do, in different ways, is communicate somehow their total involvement with the work. Arrau is more mad , more dramatic than Horowitz (I'm thinking of that Carnegie Hall performance). Arrau is -- to use the dreadful cliche'- a force of nature

Fiorentino (in the German concert) is impressive in a different way -- something to do with the perfection and crispness and beauty of the pianism. I have never heard his studio disc -- but I know it is very well spoken of.

Is there a particularly good Richter performance ?-- You know the sort of thing I mean -- from the 50s, hard to find, live concert, plays so hard he breaks the piano.

I haven't heard a recording of it by him which is as good as the other three in your list.

By the way -- there are other names to add -- Gieseking for example. And Curzon.

[George]

Is there a particularly good Richter performance ?-- You know the sort of thing I mean -- from the 50s, hard to find, live concert, plays so hard he breaks the piano.

(Prague, 2 Nov 1959) on Praga PR 254 033 (CD) or Multisonic 31 0193 (CD)

[ccar]

I think it's safe to say there are quite a number of unforgettable live versions of the Fantasia: Arrau, Fiorentino, Horowitz, Richter.

Absolutely. I also enjoy very much these wonderful versions (and some others previously posted). Without trying to be exhaustive, in an iconic piece like the Schuman Fantasia I feel I have to name a few artists not previously mentioned, but who I remember with some very personal and revealing readings:

      - 3 "russian school" - Sofronitsky, Virsaladze, Egorov
      - 3 "german school" – Fisher, Backhaus and Gieseking
      - 3 "french school" – Nat, Casadesus, Catherine Collard

And for Richter it's always the usual difficulty of choosing - between his (at least) 5 available versions of the Fantasia.
 
Carlos   

[Mandryka]

Absolutely. I also enjoy very much these wonderful versions (and some others previously posted). Without trying to be exhaustive, in an iconic piece like the Schuman Fantasia I feel I have to name a few artists not previously mentioned, but who I remember with some very personal and revealing readings:

     - 3 "russian school" - Sofronitsky, Virsaladze, Egorov
     - 3 "german school" – Fisher, Backhaus and Gieseking
     - 3 "french school" – Nat, Casadesus, Catherine Collard

And for Richter it's always the usual difficulty of choosing - between his (at least) 5 available versions of the Fantasia.
 
Carlos  

That's interesting.

Is that idea that there are distinctive French and German and Russian styles of playing it?

[Novi]

What Horowitz and Arrau do, in different ways, is communicate somehow their total involvement with the work. Arrau is more mad , more dramatic than Horowitz (I'm thinking of that Carnegie Hall performance). Arrau is -- to use the dreadful cliche'- a force of nature

Mandryka, what label is the Arrau on and is it still in print? I don't really know Arrau's Schumann, only his Symphonic Études, which I don't really like, but 'force of nature' - cliché or not - and 'mad' and 'dramatic' sound interesting. I imagine it's a slower, 'bigger' performance?

[Mandryka]

Mandryka, what label is the Arrau on and is it still in print? I don't really know Arrau's Schumann, only his Symphonic Études, which I don't really like, but 'force of nature' - cliché or not - and 'mad' and 'dramatic' sound interesting. I imagine it's a slower, 'bigger' performance?

http://www.crotchet.co.uk/FAB120512.html?id=KWMEj9Ip.

No -- not slower. Not bigger. Just very intense and energetic. And most of all spontaneous and not at all over intellectual. I can't explain. You just have to hear it.

Sound quality is perfectly OK I think.

The Apassionata and the Chopin Nocturne and Ballade on the disc are pretty amazing too.

I like his studio performances of these works myself -- but these concert recordings are in a completely different league.

[ccar]

That's interesting.

Is that idea that there is a distinctive French and German and Russian styles of playing it?

No. It was only an easy, perhaps silly, way of remembering them and avoiding just a straight list of names.
Although there may be some common memories in the training and in the cultural influences I believe, particularly in major artists like these, their individuality and personal style always grows very much above their "school". That's exactly why they are "special". And some were so special they almost learned by themselves - see Richter and Gieseking.

Carlos      

PS And I fully agree with you - that Arrau from Ascona is a must.

[Novi]

http://www.crotchet.co.uk/FAB120512.html?id=KWMEj9Ip.

No -- not slower. Not bigger. Just very intense and energetic. And most of all spontaneous and not at all over intellectual. I can't explain. You just have to hear it.

Sound quality is perfectly OK I think.

The Apassionata and the Chopin Nocturne and Ballade on the disc are pretty amazing too.

I like his studio performances of these works myself -- but these concert recordings are in a completely different league.

Thanks! I don't think there's any Chopin in the set? Just the Appassionata, Handel Variations, Gaspard, and Liszt's B minor.

Are these early Arrau? I'm keen to hear the Appassionata - the Philips recording was my imprint version.

[Mandryka]

The Chopin -- Op 62/1 and Ballade 4 is here -- sorry I was confused:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Piano-Works-Claudio-Various-Composers/dp/B000050J5F/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1254776093&sr=8-2

The Fantasia recording comes from a concert in Ascona in 1959.

the Chopin is from a concert in Ascona again -- this time in 1971.

Has anyone ever been to Ascona? There must be something good about it if it brings out performances like these.

[mjwal]

I have a live Arrau from Italy which is very special, but it's in my partner's residence in France, so can't identify. The Gieseking is very fine, and I like the more recent version by Nelson Freire very much.
To revert to the "theme" problem of the first movement: I cannot remember or check whether Rosen mentions this - the thematic substance of the 1st movement is based upon the theme at the end of An die ferne Geliebte, "Nimm sie hin denn, diese Lieder", which Schumann also quotes in the last movement of my favourite symphony, his 2nd in C (really his 3rd). I understand this movement as being a fantasy of desperate yearning & transcendent love, revolving around this most intimate offer of himself anyone could make (Then take them, these songs, which I sang for you my love), but qualified by hesitations, irritations, moodswings. The Beethoven quote only becomes fully itself right at the end, just before the final cadence.

[cosmicj]

I too used to find the Fantasy in C a confusing, meandering piece.  Then I heard Pollini's performance (on the DG disc with the 1st sonata) and everything clicked into place.  Pollini sometimes takes a too rigid approach for some music but here that steadiness of tempo and attention to architecture makes for what is the best performance I've ever heard.  I think it's the big achievement of Pollini's career.

The Fantasy has to be the most difficult work interpretatively in the 19th-cent reportoire.  I just keep hearing very good pianists give their all and fall flat on their faces: Nelson Freire (passion turns to mush), DelaRocha (OK, but misses the mark a good deal of the time), a live performance by Perahia (the 3rd mvt is taken so slow that the whole lengthens out into confusion).  Admission - I haven't heard the Richter recording everyone raves about.

This thread surprised me by featuring so much criticism of what I think is one of the cornerstones of the western musical tradition.  The rcause is the interpretations and not the score.

[Hobby]

I've only just picked up on this thread which died in 2010. I've been revelling in the many highly rated performances, playing Fiorentino, Schliessman, Richter, Arrau, Horowitz. I just came across the 1997 recording by Volker Banfield which I think is as good as any of these - he has recorded three Schumann discs and much twentieth century music and was also the dedicatee for three of Ligeti's etudes. There are of course several more recent recordings - I find Hamelin quirky, but Vogt and Andsnes are good.

[Mandryka]

I've only just picked up on this thread which died in 2010. I've been revelling in the many highly rated performances, playing Fiorentino, Schliessman, Richter, Arrau, Horowitz. I just came across the 1997 recording by Volker Banfield which I think is as good as any of these - he has recorded three Schumann discs and much twentieth century music and was also the dedicatee for three of Ligeti's etudes. There are of course several more recent recordings - I find Hamelin quirky, but Vogt and Andsnes are good.

I haven't heard the fantasy but I have heard Volker Banfield's op 11 sonata, and I can see from that that he's an interesting and imaginative musician. I heard his Ligeti etudes a couple of months ago and was really impressed.

The last time I heard the fantasy it was a real outstanding performance - Nelson Freire in a concert recording in Toronto in 1984.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJEVV4SkNME