Bach on the harpsichord, lute-harpsichord, clavichord

Started by Que, April 14, 2007, 01:30:11 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

#1360
Quote from: JBS on January 09, 2023, 07:24:51 PMThe Leonhardt on Youtube.
https://youtu.be/nEyywMaHWek

To me it seems much too sluggish, or (more positively) more meditative. I'm not sure it's possible to be more introverted.

Quote from: Mandryka on January 09, 2023, 11:45:31 PMMy reservations are partly due to the pulse, the rhythm, in Leonhardt's performance. Listen to Hopkinson Smith, and the way he manages the rhythm, it sounds much more internal and expressive to me.

I like the left hand, rhythm, and overall jazziness. Very different from the cello though.
I like the thick sound of instrument as well.

Dry Brett Kavanaugh


Mandryka

#1362
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on January 10, 2023, 06:13:57 AMI like the left hand, rhythm, and overall jazziness. Very different from the cello though.
I like the thick sound of instrument as well.

Jazzy is a good word for it. It's quite hard core!   I think it's a Zell harpsichord.

Oh, I see only the prelude is on youtube, which is a shame. And strange those comments there about Bruno Cocset.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

#1363
Quote from: Mandryka on January 10, 2023, 08:14:30 AMJazzy is a good word for it. It's quite hard core!  I think it's a Zell harpsichord.

Oh, I see only the prelude is on youtube, which is a shame. And strange those comments there about Bruno Cocset.


Sounds opulent and exotic. I will look for other recordings with this instrument. I would appreciate a suggestion if anybody happens to remember any good recordings.

Mandryka

#1364
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on January 10, 2023, 09:07:46 AMSounds opulent and exotic. I will look for other recordings with this instrument. I would appreciate a suggestion if anybody happens to remember any good recordings.

Your wish is my command - though Leonhardt may have used the original Hamburg Zell.

http://www.kojimarokuon.com/disc/ALCD1187.html

And this possibly - it certainly sounds like a top tier harpsichord

https://www.amazon.de/Gustav-Leonhardt-Italienische-Cembalo-Consortmusik/dp/B0000251BA/ref=sr_1_9?__mk_de_DE=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&dchild=1&keywords=frescobaldi+leonhardt&qid=1603569522&s=music&sr=1-9

And this, IMO a top tier performance

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2007/sept07/bach_asperen_3857952.htm

And another "after" - if you search 1728  zell cd you'll find there are loads more "afters"

https://www.discogs.com/release/12321481-Johann-Sebastian-Bach-Glen-Wilson-Das-Wohltemperierte-Klavier-II-The-Well-Tempered-Clavier-Le-Clavie
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

premont

#1365
Quote from: Mandryka on January 10, 2023, 10:10:41 AMYour wish is my command - though Leonhardt may have used the original Hamburg Zell.

And this possibly - it certainly sounds like a top tier harpsichord

https://www.amazon.de/Gustav-Leonhardt-Italienische-Cembalo-Consortmusik/dp/B0000251BA/ref=sr_1_9?__mk_de_DE=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&dchild=1&keywords=frescobaldi+leonhardt&qid=1603569522&s=music&sr=1-9

And this, IMO a top tier performance

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2007/sept07/bach_asperen_3857952.htm

And another "after" - if you search 1728  zell cd you'll find there are loads more "afters"

https://www.discogs.com/release/12321481-Johann-Sebastian-Bach-Glen-Wilson-Das-Wohltemperierte-Klavier-II-The-Well-Tempered-Clavier-Le-Clavie

Leonhardt plays the original Zell from Hamburg in BWV 1010. And van Asperen uses the same instrument for his WTC.  Also Alan Curtis uses the original Zell for his English and French suites (Telefunken).

No Zell instrument is used for the Leonhardt Italienische Cembalo/Consort music CD, the Frescobaldi pieces are shared between an Italian harpsichord (unspecified in the booklet) and a Kirkman harpsichord 1766 from London. The Scarlatti sonatas are played on a modern harpsichord by R Schütze, Heidelberg.
γνῶθι σεαυτόν

premont

γνῶθι σεαυτόν

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

#1367
I own the Curtis, Asperen, and Wilson. I agree that they all are wonderful. I will re-listen to them carefully and compare them this week.
I must be more careful about the instruments in the recordings I have.
The Leonhardt edition looks cool anyway. I will look for the recording.
Mandryka knows Japanese artists more than average Japanese listners. I will get the Takehisa in Japan next month. I assume Mandryka has good opinion about the recording/artist.
Thanks a lot!

Do you gents like the instrument like I do?

Mandryka

Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on January 10, 2023, 11:45:22 AMI own the Curtis, Asperen, and Wilson. I agree that they all are wonderful. I will re-listen to them carefully and compare them this week.
I must be more careful about the instruments in the recordings I have.
The Leonhardt edition looks cool anyway. I will look for the recording.
Mandryka knows Japanese artists more than average Japanese listners. I will get the Takehisa in Japan next month. I assume Mandryka has good opinion about the recording/artist.
Thanks a lot!

Do you gents like the instrument like I do?

Takehisa is @milk 's baby more than mine - and in truth I've only listened to his BK 2 on that recording, which uses piano.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

premont

γνῶθι σεαυτόν

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

Quote from: Mandryka on January 09, 2023, 07:11:28 PMThe Rübsam benefits from a lovely sounding instrument - sometimes he reminds me of those interpretations of Schubert long form piano music where the pianist makes it sound like someone wondering, groping, losing narrative  - Lonquich, Richter. Bach as Morton Feldman avant la lettre!

Yes the cello and violin transcriptions sound good!

milk

#1371
Quote from: Mandryka on January 10, 2023, 04:45:43 AMWhat did you think of Kenneth Weiss's AoF. Someone I know who actually teaches baroque music in a European university was in raptures about Rondeau's Goldbergs - " best ever" apparently. I haven't heard it, though I heard him in concert with it.
I'm glad you reminded me to listen to Weiss. He's usually great. I had a good reaction to Rondeau the first time but a less good one the second. I'm not sure. I remember thinking he's very busy. ETA: I can't be negative about Rondeau and a lot of people should and will enjoy his recording. It's energetic and fresh. I'm not sure why my tastes have changed or how. Rondeau is painting in bright colors and I will enjoy it on a day when I'm looking for pure sunshine. What do you think is a very intimate and soft rendition I wonder? ...because Rondeau isn't that. But Rondeau is recommended.

premont

Quote from: milk on January 10, 2023, 03:56:54 PMI'm glad you reminded me to listen to Weiss.

I wasn't that taken by Weiss' AoF as I had expected, but this is first and foremost caused by the recorded sound, which I find subpar, more than the interpretation, which I find rather sympathetic.
γνῶθι σεαυτόν

Mandryka

#1373
Quote from: premont on January 10, 2023, 04:26:52 PMI wasn't that taken by Weiss' AoF as I had expected, but this is first and foremost caused by the recorded sound, which I find subpar, more than the interpretation, which I find rather sympathetic.


Well that shows how subjective things are, because the sound seems OK to me! A bit close, but it wouldn't be the first. The interpretation is growing on me. Put it like this: the world is a better place slightly because Weiss's AoF exists, or maybe I should say my world.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

#1374
Quote from: milk on January 10, 2023, 03:56:54 PMWhat do you think is a very intimate and soft rendition

Egarr and Rübsam obvs.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen


milk


I don't really know him but I thought this might be a chance to discuss this. It will take me a while to listen to this a few times and get something to say about it but so far I think this recording is worth paying attention to.

Mandryka

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

milk

#1378
Quote from: Mandryka on February 06, 2023, 10:13:17 AMIt's very Italian style


https://www.wethepeoplestyle.com/2017/12/italian-style-rules/
I guess I can hear how this fits or how he finds the Italian in it. The D-minor set in book 2, on fortepiano, is quite something. I think a lot of his playing on Bk 2 is particularly interesting.
Bach was very influenced by Italian music right? So it's already there, right? I like having both ends of the spectrum represented on my playlists, as long as it's true to the music.

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

#1379
Quote from: Mandryka on January 09, 2023, 07:11:28 PMDon't forget the 1010  by Leonhardt,  recorded on a Zell. It's on a Seon recording with the Chromatic Fantasia and Fugue.

The Rübsam benefits from a lovely sounding instrument - sometimes he reminds me of those interpretations of Schubert long form piano music where the pianist makes it sound like someone wondering, groping, losing narrative  - Lonquich, Richter. Bach as Morton Feldman avant la lettre!


Quote from: Mandryka on January 09, 2023, 11:45:31 PMMy reservations are partly due to the pulse, the rhythm, in Leonhardt's performance. Listen to Hopkinson Smith, and the way he manages the rhythm, it sounds much more internal and expressive to me.


In general, timing of Hopkinson Smith is very likable, but often some of his notes get weak or unclear. Nowadays, I like Sato and Konrad Junghanel more. Plus maybe early Imamura.
The below is 1010 by Sato, picturesque and very wide, imo.





P.s. I'd like to add Julian Bream's 1000 for your consideration please.