Bach on the harpsichord, lute-harpsichord, clavichord

[BWV 1080]

@BWV 1080 - where do you hear "style brisé" in Hill?

Have heard him play mostly in that style on youtube, not sure about particular recordings, although @San Antone mentions Peter Hill, it is Robert Hill I am thinking about

[ritter]

@DavidW @Brian  or other moderators
Please move the posts on French Suites piano to the Bach piano thread. Yes I started and am responsible of the nongermane posts. Sorry.

Done! Please take a look at both threads (this and the piano one) to see whether the result is satisfactory and coherent.

Regards,

[prémont]

Have heard him play mostly in that style on youtube, not sure about particular recordings, although @San Antone mentions Peter Hill, it is Robert Hill I am thinking about

Peter Hill (pianist) and Robert Hill (early keyboardist) are two different persons. And while we are at it, where do you hear Style Brisé in Rübsam's piano recordings?

[BWV 1080]

Peter Hill (pianist) and Robert Hill (early keyboardist) are two different persons. And while we are at it, where do you hear Style Brisé in Rübsam's piano recordings?

I dont, those were from the early 90s correct?  Its his more recent Lautenwerck recordings I am referring to

[San Antone]

Schornsheim

Her ongoing WTC videos for All of Bach are really good.  Glad to her mentioned in this thread.

[prémont]

I dont, those were from the early 90s correct?

Yes.

Its his more recent Lautenwerck recordings I am referring to

So, what remains is that you don't like Rübsam's style in his more recent recordings on lute-harpsichord. I once asked him whether the Style Brisé was his inspiration for these recordings, and he said that this was not the case, but instead he pointed to some early Italian baroque vocal style with desynchronizations of the voices, which I don't know. Maybe Mandryka will be better to explain the point than I am.

[Mandryka]

Re whether Rubsam makes Bach sound like style brisé, here's what Toyohiko Satoh says about Denis Gaultier's music

It used to be a mystery to me why most of these 17th century French pieces are so short. My doubts dissolved
after I started playing them as slowly as possible. If
one plays at a slow tempo and expresses each note with
nuance and timing, these pieces are not at all short, and
it makes little sense to invent even longer compositions.
I consider this to be the point where the 17th century
French "Style Brisé" differs fundamentally from the
later "Gallant style" with its many sequences (repetitive
progressions).

[BWV 1080]

Although I think about galant as less about the long sequences and more about stock schema (like cataloged by R Gjerdingen), punchier rhythm and a harmonic texture where most chords are some inversion of ii, V or I, similar to later 18th century classicism

[Mandryka]

Although I think about galant as less about the long sequences and more about stock schema (like cataloged by R Gjerdingen), punchier rhythm and a harmonic texture where most chords are some inversion of ii, V or I, similar to later 18th century classicism

According to David Yearsley (in Bach and the meaning of counterpoint) the essence of galant in Bach's milieu was aesthetic. He argues (with good support) that galant had to to do with simplification and consonance. It was opposed to old school contrapuntal music, where voices could combine even if the result was dissonance and complex textures.

I'm going on memory here, the book is on the shelf, I know exactly where it is, it would take me no time to get it, I saw it the other day, but . . .

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

According to David Yearsley (in Bach and the meaning of counterpoint) the essence of galant in Bach's milieu was aesthetic. He argues (with good support) that galant had to to do with simplification and consonance. It was opposed to old school contrapuntal music, where voices could combine even if the result was dissonance and complex textures.

I'm going on memory here, the book is on the shelf, I know exactly where it is, it would take me no time to get it, I saw it the other day, but . . .

I briefly read that that's what the son of JSB did and Frederick the Great liked the son but not JSB's "old style" music.

[Mandryka]

I briefly read that that's what the son of JSB did and Frederick the Great liked the son but not JSB's "old style" music.

Well the king liked him enough to invite him to write Musical Offering, and to retain him in a very significant job.

[aukhawk]

Rubsam worries at the music like an old dog with a bone.  I think his approach is interesting for an occasional listen, and I like the sound of his instrument.  I think he is a bit more successful in WTC II than in Book I.
In fact I am just listening to his WTC I as I write - and I was immediately shocked by his ornaments in the Prelude I in C - I don't mind him pulling the music around, but ornaments in this purest of pure statements by Bach? - no that's just wrong 

[Mandryka]

I don't mind him pulling the music around, but ornaments in this purest of pure statements by Bach? - no that's just wrong 

Double standards!

[aukhawk]

Well it's only 3 minutes of restraint I'm asking for.  Obviously if I really didn't like him pulling and pushing at the music I wouldn't listen to him at all.  As, most times, I don't.

[Mandryka]

Hantai plays a French suite in Leonhardt's old house

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN-_H4I5gDM&ab_channel=NetherlandsBachSociety

And another one here from Hantai, different venue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2rQtGtxpOw&ab_channel=NetherlandsBachSociety

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

I like it because it sounds like a sincere declaration of love.

The Erato recording is better I think.

What recordings do you (and other ladies and gents) like for the English Suites?

[prémont]

What recordings do you (and other ladies and gents) like for the English Suites?

On harpsichord:
Gustav Leonhardt (both his recordings)
Bob van Asperen
Pascal Dubreuil
Colin Tilney
Alan Curtis

and I have to add:
Helmut Walcha on revival harpsichord

On piano:
Wolfgang Rúbsam (Naxos)

[Mandryka]

What recordings do you (and other ladies and gents) like for the English Suites?

I especially like Walcha playing the 6th, the last.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

Thanks gents, I like Walcha and Leon 2. Any new talents besides Tinley?

Will check Dubreuil.

[Mandryka]

Any new talents besides Tinley?

Vis à vis the English Suites, the elephant in the room is Egarr. Full of fresh ideas, and it's one of those studio recordings where you can tell somehow that he's really into it, in the mood for it.