Bach on the harpsichord, lute-harpsichord, clavichord

[prémont]

I think Egarr's Bach is an acquired taste as is Rübsam's Bach - not that I haven't acquired it though. But there are many others and nice recordings of the English suites eg.:

Peter Watchorn
Masaaki Suzuki
Pieter-Jan Belder
Carole Cerasi
Blandine Rannou
Kenneth Gilbert (OOP)
Sophie Yates
Olga Martynova

Christophe Rousset's recording is brilliant but somewhat marred by hangar-acoustics

I have not heard the one by Lorenzo Ghielmi, but was somewhat underwhelmed by his recording of the Partitas.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

I'm not crazy about the Ghielmi. I remember I liked Parmentier. I will check Cerati, Olga and Egarr.

Feel same about the Roussett.

[Franco_Manitobain]

What recordings do you (and other ladies and gents) like for the English Suites?

I only know it on piano.  I enjoy Angela Hewitt on the piano in Bach.

[DavidW]

Leonhardt for me.

[prémont]

I'm not crazy about the Ghielmi. I remember I liked Parmentier. I will check Cerati, Olga and Egarr.

Feel same about the Roussett.

Yes, I forgot Parmentier. It's a long time since it spun in my CD deck, but I recall a sympathetic interpretation and not the least one of the most beautiful and well recorded harpsichords I ever have heard. Parmentier's WTC book I (he hasn't recorded book II as far as I know) is also worth to know.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

I especially like Walcha playing the 6th, the last.

The instrument sounds so so so cute and elegant.

[Mandryka]

I only know it on piano.  I enjoy Angela Hewitt on the piano in Bach.

Given the context of the English Suites, that comment reminded me that Hewitt recorded one of them on her first Bach recording.  This one

https://www.discogs.com/master/1307319-J-S-Bach-Angela-Hewitt-English-Suite-No-6-BWV-811-4-Duets-BWV-802-805-Italian-Concerto-BWV-971-Tocca

I've never heard her later recording of these suites, so I can't say anything about how her point of view changed in the intervening years. I can say that this one on DG is OK.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

On harpsichord:
Gustav Leonhardt (both his recordings)
Bob van Asperen
Pascal Dubreuil
Colin Tilney
Alan Curtis

and I have to add:
Helmut Walcha on revival harpsichord

On piano:
Wolfgang Rúbsam (Naxos)

I like Pascal Dubreuil!

[Mandryka]

Thought provoking discussion by Bertrand Cuiller here, about the second English suite. Simple, unpretetentious music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by884lpyBXA&t=0s&ab_channel=NetherlandsBachSociety

[Mandryka]

I just read Francesco Cera's notes to the French Suites, which @Atriod kindly shared with me. This is a striking comment

. Three minor
keys followed by three major keys - this could be
described as follows by citing the interesting
definitions of three authorities of the baroque era,
Kircher, Charpentier and Mattheson: D minor (1st
suite), serious and meditative, C minor (2nd suite),
dark and sad, B minor (3rd suite), lonely and
melancholic, E flat major (4th suite), emotional and
affectionate, G major (5th suite), playful and
caressing, E major (6th suite), otherworldly. This
step-by-step sequence, almost a change from
sadness to joy, reminds of a presentation of
spiritual and religious basis of human life. In Bach's
era, religion was an unalterable value as consolation
for human life. Apart from this, Bach's instrumental
works have always been conceded a spiritual
sense, especially those with a soloist instrument.
Our imagination is not only aroused by the keys
and harmonies but also by the musical figurations,
a true symbol language in Bach's sacred music
(and not only in his sacred music). The human
being which is tormented by sin and the hardships
of life (1st suite) is forced to take a hard way through
life (2nd suite). Only prayer and the teachings of
Jesus Christ can lead him to salvation of the soul
(3rd suite). The fruit of faith is the consoling
experience of God's grace (4th suite), which only makes the joy of human love possible (5th suite)
and after death awards us with the pleasures of
paradise by Jesus Christ's side (6th suite).

It reminds me of a comment Egarr made on the structure of the set of English Suites,

. . . During the
last two suites the second Passepied and second Gavotte are
the only points of lightness that poke out from the increasing
deformities and feelings of distraction which infect the music.
This disease is most clearly evident in the final two Gigues of
the cycle. The first four Gigues have characters ranging through
amiable, to seriously energetic and oddly angular to downright
jolly (the F major is almost Handellian). The e minor and d
minor Gigues present warped, crabby themes, progressively
twisted and harmonically distorted. In the final movement of the
cycle diabolic trills infest the helpless long notes around which
incessantly restless demons dance.
This is a true cycle of pieces – one of Bach's first and
certainly one of his best. The care with which Bach has planned
their path, and the skill in creating a musical journey to a most
fearful place is astonishing. The way to redemption and salvation
after this journey is perhaps shown by the key sequence of the
Suites: A – a – g – F – e – d. These six notes clearly describe the
Chorale tune "Jesu, meine Freude" ". I recorded the Suites in order.
I certainly felt that it helped me make the musical path clearer.  . . . .


I posted a few days ago an interesting video by Francesco Corti where he asserts that the style of both sets of suites are very close.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEgd_SCahRw&t=58s&ab_channel=NetherlandsBachSociety


What all this means for performance issues I cannot say.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

Revisiting the English Suites by the pupil of Gilbert and Scott Ross. Orthodox interpretation and it sounds like Leonhardt a little.

[prémont]

Revisiting the English Suites by the pupil of Gilbert and Scott Ross. Orthodox interpretation and it sounds like Leonhardt a little.

Yes, a good and substantial interpretation. After I had purchased her English suites maybe 15 years ago I was keen to find more of her Bach recordings, but I didn't have the fortune to get hold of them.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

Yes, a good and substantial interpretation. After I had purchased her English suites maybe 15 years ago I was keen to find more of her Bach recordings, but I didn't have the fortune to get hold of them.

What do you mean by substantial? I think Sone even studied with Leonhardt as well. She had recorded the Suites 2,3,6 in 1991. I had the disc long time ago but its gone now. She recorded French Suites twice and they are good/ok. Will look for these discs in Japan next year.

[prémont]

What all this means for performance issues I cannot say.

I always take philosophy like this from musicians with a tablespoonful of salt because the "blurb" is indeed very subjectively written and nobody knows Bach's intentions. And last but not least, how are we to use these theories in the performance and when listening to the music. Nor do I know. Every suite displays it's own affect and sometimes it is even impossible to put suitable words on it. The task for the performer must be to display what he thinks the affect is. But even here is subjectivity everywhere.

[prémont]

What do you mean by substantial?

That it contains stuff of quality, in this case artistic quality.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

From the perspective of historical information these recordings are interesting as being typical transitional "pre-informed" interpretetions played on revival harpsichords (by Thurston Dart ironically named pianochords) along with the recordings by Hans Pischner, Martin Galling, Zuzana Růžičková, Helmut Walcha et.c. What chacterizes this style is a strict trueness to the score, steady rhythm (meaning no rhetoric nor expressive rubato) and lack of distinctive and varied articulation. This style was a reaction against the earlier romantic style, and as such it was an important transitory style until the HIP movement took over. Picht-Axenfeld was one of the most important exponents of the transitional style.

Is Richard Lester close to the transitional school style?

[Mandryka]

I always take philosophy like this from musicians with a tablespoonful of salt because the "blurb" is indeed very subjectively written and nobody knows Bach's intentions. And last but not least, how are we to use these theories in the performance and when listening to the music. Nor do I know. Every suite displays it's own affect and sometimes it is even impossible to put suitable words on it. The task for the performer must be to display what he thinks the affect is. But even here is subjectivity everywhere.

Well, what they are saying is that Mattheson etc wrote about the affect conventionally associated with keys. The key of a baroque piece functioned like an expression marking in later scores. 

It's interesting because Cera's essay suggests that there was consistency among 17th century musical theorists. He talks of Kircher, Charpentier and Mattheson together, as if they are singing from the same hymn-sheet about this.

[Mandryka]

Is Richard Lester close to the transitional school style?

No, I don't think so. He's an academic at the cutting edge of this stuff, at least in Italian baroque keyboard music.

[prémont]

I never thought that the "Affectlehre" could be applied strictly to Bach. If you look at his compositions in b-minor eg. you will find many different affects "portrayed". Take the WTC book I with the consoling prelude and the fugue with the heart-breaking chromatic writing. Or book II with the dramatic prelude and the light playful fugue. And how to explain that the French Ouverture from CÛ II originated in a c-minor composition which was transposed to b-minor. Which affect does has this piece display? The b-minor organ prelude (BWV 544) is extremely dramatic with an air of Good Friday, but its fugue is very balanced and harmonic even in the last and more compact part.

[prémont]

Is Richard Lester close to the transitional school style?

He is a scholar and his background is another one than the background of representatives of the transitional school style. He has recorded a lot of Italian baroque music in a rather informed style.

On the other hand I don't appreciate his Bach that much. It bores me.  It hasn't got the rhetoric flexibility I associate with the HIP movement.