Bach on the harpsichord, lute-harpsichord, clavichord

[Opus106]

That label usually adds an extra CD for "conversations with the performers, instrument builders and restorers, and noted scholars" ("Beyond the Notes").

How nice is that!

[prémont]

Excellent news, Dave! That label usually adds an extra CD for "conversations with the performers, instrument builders and restorers, and noted scholars" ("Beyond the Notes").

Would be excellent, but I own Watchorns English suites (2 CDs), WTC book I (2 CDs) and Inventions and Symphonies (1 CD), all on Watchorns own label. But no supplementary CD´s anywhere of the kind you write about. So I am afraid, that the three CDs needed for WTC book II reflects Watchorns tendency to slow tempi, one of the traits he has in common with Isolde Ahlgrimm, you know.

[Bulldog]

Would be excellent, but I own Watchorns English suites (2 CDs), WTC book I (2 CDs) and Inventions and Symphonies (1 CD), all on Watchorns own label. But no supplementary CD´s anywhere of the kind you write about. So I am afraid, that the three CDs needed for WTC book II reflects Watchorns tendency to slow tempi, one of the traits he has in common with Isolde Ahlgrimm, you know.

I remember back when Watchorn's label was inititated.  At that time, the supplementary CD was included.  Since then, not.

[Mandryka]

Hi Antoine


Helmut Walcha the harpsichordist is (was) not that different from Helmut Walcha the organist.

The EMI recordings (originally Odeon, Germany) were made in the years 1958 – 62 (he later rerecorded the WTC for Archiv on period instruments) and  include

Clavierübung I, II  and IV.
Wohltemperierte Clavier I & II
English and French suites
Inventions & Symphonies
Chromatic Fantasy & Fugue

The complete recordings were rereleased by Japanese HMV on CD more then ten years ago, and it was difficult to get hold of and very expensive. Since long OOP. The only European CD rerelease is the French 5CD HMV box displayed in you post above.

The used instrument is a two manual Ammer modern harpsichord (16´ , 8´, 8´, 4´, and lute stop), built - as it was common in the 1950es - with pianistic ideals in mind and not taking surviving period instruments into account. The sound is not crisp at all but rather harsh and metallic.

The recording was engineered by Eric Thienhaus, who preferred a very close miking. This resulted in a more harsh sound than necessary, but on the other hand added quite a lot of intensity to the sound. A more recent parallel as to effect might be Kovacevic´s EMI Bethoven Sonata recordings.

Stylistically Walcha was entirely his own. He grew up in the time of the organ movement, which – as you know - constituted a reaction towards romanticism -  and had intruduced an ascetic, platonic view upon Bach´s works. Only what was written in the original score should be played (Werktreue). In my opinion they actually confused the score with the work. So Walcha on his own hand (while he was retired to the countryside – in Bruchköbel - during the war) worked out his interpretation of the harpsichord works based upon the naked score and which for the same reason was bound to stress the elementary elements which are notated in the score (rhythm and counterpoint).

In practice his tempi are often fast. His playing is insistent rhythmically but also stiff and mechanical, including the metrical execution of ornamentation. And he never adds ornamentation, even when the music cries out for this. On the other hand his part playing is outstanding and very clear, - this may be the greatest force of his music making. He uses rather much 16´ in his registrations, and this is probably justified, as Bach had access to such instruments and was known to prefer Gravitas at least in organ-registration. Walcha built up his own system of articulation, which implies more legato, than now is considered decent. What e.g. annoys me very much, is his preference for overtied upbeats creating rhythmically odd syncopated effects. His touch is rather forceful  (the effect stressed by the close miking) as if he was playing on a mechanical tracker organ with a heavy action.

What stands out as being the hallmarks of his playing, is his ability to display the intellectual structure (the counterpoint at most) of Bach´s music by means of his extraordinary clear part playing. At the same time his insistent rhythm and forceful touch endows the music with very much intensity, often bordering a kind of extasy. So in addition to his intellectual approach, his music making also has got a strong physical effect. This reflects in my opinion the intrinsic nature of Bach´s music, and it is in this synthesis where he may be considered unsurpassable, even if he - from a HIP point of view - got some of the details wrong. Personally I consider his EMI harpsichord recordings mandatory for every Bach-lover.

That's a very inspiring post, Premont.

[Antoine Marchand]

Would be excellent, but I own Watchorns English suites (2 CDs), WTC book I (2 CDs) and Inventions and Symphonies (1 CD), all on Watchorns own label. But no supplementary CD´s anywhere of the kind you write about. So I am afraid, that the three CDs needed for WTC book II reflects Watchorns tendency to slow tempi, one of the traits he has in common with Isolde Ahlgrimm, you know.

It's probable because I am just speculating. I have three sets with the additional CD:

Bach - Six Sonatas for Violin and Harpsichord BWV 1014-1019 (3 CDs, with the third one named "Bach as Capellmeister: Cöthen 1717-1722" with Peter Watchorn).

Felix & Fanny Mendelssohn - Piano Trios (2 CDs; 2nd CD: "The Mendelssohns: The Artist Place in High Society" with Schröder, Sutherland and Crawford).

Gabriel Fauré - Nocturnes (2 CDs; 2nd CD: "Drawn in sound" with Sally Pinkas).

[prémont]

I have three sets with the additional CD:

Bach - Six Sonatas for Violin and Harpsichord BWV 1014-1019 (3 CDs, with the third one named "Bach as Capellmeister: Cöthen 1717-1722" with Peter Watchorn).

Lady Fortuna seems to smile to you. 

BTW can you recommend the set with the Bach violin/harpsichord sonatas (the two CDs with the music of course)?

[Antoine Marchand]

Lady Fortuna seems to smile to you. 

Just for now. 

BTW can you recommend the set with the Bach violin/harpsichord sonatas (the two CDs with the music of course)?

Without any problem. I like the excellent balance between the instruments and the sober, calm, anti-Italianate approach  . 

[SonicMan46]

Excellent news, Dave! That label usually adds an extra CD for "conversations with the performers, instrument builders and restorers, and noted scholars" ("Beyond the Notes").

Yes, I noticed that w/ the Atlantis Trio Mendelssohn releases - just picked up the one below (left) of the Piano Trio D Minor & the Piano Sextet - just 1 disc (and a recommendation from you to me, I believe, in another thread) - so, put in an order to complete the 'Trio set' w/ Felix's other piano trio and that of his sister, which fits on a single CD, but is described as a 1+1, so I'm assuming that the other disc is what you describe above?  Thanks for the recommendation - enjoyed tremendously!  Dave 


 

[Bulldog]

BTW can you recommend the set with the Bach violin/harpsichord sonatas (the two CDs with the music of course)?

I can recommend the set for Watchorn's exceptional performances.  I'm not as sold on his partner Ngai who I find is too often reserved and emotionally superficial.

[Antoine Marchand]

... (the two CDs with the music of course)?

BTW, Watchorn has a rather pleasant voice.

I have sent you a PM.

[Antoine Marchand]

... so, put in an order to complete the 'Trio set' w/ Felix's other piano trio and that of his sister, which fits on a single CD, but is described as a 1+1, so I'm assuming that the other disc is what you describe above? 

You are totally right.

The second CD is what I described above. It's named "The Mendelssohns: The Artist Place in High Society", a conversation among the performers (Schröder, Sutherland and Crawford).

[Antoine Marchand]

Just checking Peter Watchorn's website Musica Omnia - appears that he's about to release the WTC, Book 2 on the pedal harpsichord - own the first book w/ him which came on 2 discs; this one is listed as 3 discs but not sure why w/o seeing the contents?   

Would be excellent, but I own Watchorns English suites (2 CDs), WTC book I (2 CDs) and Inventions and Symphonies (1 CD), all on Watchorns own label. But no supplementary CD´s anywhere of the kind you write about. So I am afraid, that the three CDs needed for WTC book II reflects Watchorns tendency to slow tempi, one of the traits he has in common with Isolde Ahlgrimm, you know.

Mystery solved with the kind help of the performer himself, who has answered me via email. Kindly also, he has authorized me to share his replies here:

- Book 2 really takes 3 CDs for the music alone. The total playing time is 186 minutes (!). I recorded it in three days (God knows how!) and I think this recording is the best yet. I used the large German harpsichord (same one used for the violin sonatas and the 2 & 3 part Inventions/Sinfonias). This time, however, it was placed on the same pedal harpsichord used in Book 1 of the WTC. The sound is unbelievably awesome - we came up with a new set-up that really focused the sound, improving it substantially.

Final mastering is due by October 15th, CDs should be out before end of October.

- Book 2 of the WTC is longer for one main reason: so many of the preludes have repeats, whereas only one does in Book 1. I also added the G major prelude, BWV 902 as an appendix (it is substantial: nearly 9' long, with both repeats played). This was once attached to an early version of the little G major fugue that did make it into the WTC Book 2. It is such a great piece that I decided to include it. Without it Book 2 clocks in at 177 minutes.

Book 2 was recorded in the same space as Book 1. This time, however, we built a "wall" behind the instrument to focus the sound. It worked. Also, for Book 2, I used a different harpsichord (a large German-style instrument) in order to emphasize the differences between Books 1 & 2. I think it turned out well.

BTW, Peter Watchorn is not just one of the most gifted and learned harpsichordists in activity, but a charming person too, interested in the contact with his public.

MUSICA OMNIA WEBSITE

[SonicMan46]

Mystery solved with the kind help of the performer himself, who has answered me via email. Kindly also, he has authorized me to share his replies here:

- Book 2 really takes 3 CDs for the music alone..................

Antoine - thanks for contacting Watchorn for an explanation of the upcoming 3-disc release!  I've sent a number of e-mails to performers over the years and several have responded, which has made me respect them much more.  Now, really looking forward to adding the second book to my first one!  Dave 

[Bulldog]

Antoine - thanks for contacting Watchorn for an explanation of the upcoming 3-disc release!  I've sent a number of e-mails to performers over the years and several have responded, which has made me respect them much more.  Now, really looking forward to adding the second book to my first one!  Dave 

Yes, the new Watchorn is a must-have.  I'm also looking forward to the Pollini Bk. 1.

[Antoine Marchand]

Has somebody listened to these discs?

[Mandryka]

What e.g. annoys me very much, is his preference for overtied upbeats creating rhythmically odd syncopated effects.

So, thanks to your post, Premont,  I have been getting a lot of pleasure from his Harpsichord recordings on EMI recently.

But this point about the upbeats -- I just can't hear it. Can you point out a passage where it's really clear?

Thanks again.

Howard.

[Bulldog]

I was expressing a wish/request for new one to be released, does not exist currently........
his older Goldberg is available for Decca which I have, but his recent work for Ambroisie label is another level higher

I can't agree.  I have Rousset's English Suites on Ambroisie, and his interpretations are rather superficial.  Part of the problem is the sound which I find too bright and diffuse, resulting in a lack of fine detail among the musical lines.  Overall, I much prefer his Decca recordings.

[DarkAngel]

I can't agree.  I have Rousset's English Suites on Ambroisie, and his interpretations are rather superficial.  Part of the problem is the sound which I find too bright and diffuse, resulting in a lack of fine detail among the musical lines.  Overall, I much prefer his Decca recordings.

Yes I read in previous posts that you don't like the new Ambroisie sound for Rousset......the "wet" sound
It is much different sound/style than the Decca versions, so I am not surprised that some will not be enchanted with Ambroisie versions

I am with Bunny and a few others who think they are among the finest Bach harpsicord available, I want to drown in the wettness.........
I will keep the Decca versions on hand, but always use Ambroisie for my reference.
On my stereo systems the Ruckers used for Ambroisie performances has a full rich toned voice........making most others sound bright/thin by comparison

I can understand the "diffuse" description because part of the richness is the reverberant playing style and sound signature of Ruckers, other versions have a leaner brighter cleaner sound that I find less satisfying, so it is in the end a personal choice of what you like

[Bulldog]

Yes I read in previous posts that you don't like the new Ambroisie sound for Rousset......the "wet" sound
It is much different sound/style than the Decca versions, so I am not surprised that some will not be enchanted with Ambroisie versions

I am with Bunny and a few others who think they are among the finest Bach harpsicord available, I want to drown in the wettness.........
I will keep the Decca versions on hand, but always use Ambroisie for my reference.
On my stereo systems the Ruckers used for Ambroisie performances has a full rich toned voice........making most others sound bright/thin by comparison

I can understand the "diffuse" description because part of the richness is the reverberant playing style and sound signature of Ruckers, other versions have a leaner brighter cleaner sound that I find less satisfying, so it is in the end a personal choice of what you like

You like the wet sound, I like it dry.  Sounds like we're both getting what we want.

[Bulldog]

What are these "wet" and "dry" sounds? (That's a question asked in all seriousness.) Could you describe it to me?

It's so much easier to refer to a particular recording as wet or dry than provide a description, but I'll give it a shot.

For me, a wet recording sounds to a degree as if the source is slightly submerged in a tub of water - nothing is crisp or clear, so the detail of the various musical lines is blurred.  Although this damages homophonic music, it's a killer in polyphonic/contrapuntal music.

A equally odious sound is over-reverberation that sounds as if the music's source is an airplane hangar.  This type of sound has all the debilitating characteristics of a wet sound.  Of course, there are many who would refer to such sound as rich and gorgeous.

Dry sound is rather clinical with every detail open to the listener's discriminating tastes.  From what I regularly read and hear, most folks do not like dry/clinical sound.

The Rousset/Decca and Ambroisie sounds are so different that they are super examples to determine your preferences.