Bach on the harpsichord, lute-harpsichord, clavichord

[Que]

When I wrote my previous post I believed that Bach on clavichord would be a very appeal thing for some people in this thread; but, it seems, I wasn't sufficiently specific  :

Goldberg Variations: http://www.arta.cz/index.php?p=f10136en&site=en

The Well Tempered Clavier: http://www.arta.cz/index.php?p=f10165en&site=en 

Inventions & Sinfonias, Duets: http://www.arta.cz/index.php?p=f10076en&site=en

I have all of these Cd's now and just can say that people interested in Bach and clavichord should go for them... Honest!

Nice to see the ARTA site agian - plenty of new goodies!

And oooohh my, there goes my Christmas bonus...

Q

[prémont]

When I wrote my previous post I believed that Bach on clavichord would be a very appeal thing for some people in this thread; but, it seems, I wasn't sufficiently specific  :
I have all of these Cd's now and just can say that people interested in Bach and clavichord should go for them... Honest!

Thanks for these links, and for the information. Which sort of payment does Arta accept? Visa card?

[Antoine Marchand]

Some examples can be useful (unfortunately something is lost in the conversion to mp3 because of the very elusive sound of the clavichord)):

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=T8MTthGkfl8

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=3OTJU0mwyQg

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=3M0ZqetN7A8

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=1oOyXgNL6HU

[prémont]

It's about Jaroslav Tuma playing the Goldberg Variations on two clavichords. The first one is an instrument built in 2004 and based on an original of 1761 by David Tannenberg and chosen as the lower manual for the pair of clavichords. On it stood a small clavichord that is a copy (2002) of a clavichord of 1787 built by Christian Gottlob Hubert of Ansbach.

What do you think about?

Very beautiful and expressive, as I would expect the Aria proper and Var. XV to be. One might wonder if Var. XXVIII and XXIX work equally well on clavichord. A propos Jaroslav Tuma I own his most noble and distinguished Art of Fuge (on organ), for whom he also recorded the Clavierübung III on organ and the WTC I on harpsichord. Interesting to see, that he has embarked on a Bach/clavichord project like Richard Troeger. I always wondered, why the clavichord was so seldom used for recordings of Bachs keyboard music. The Inventions, French Suites and much of the WTC among other things work very well on clavichord, and even Richard Troegers Art of Fuge is a great and unusual pleasure.

[prémont]

Some examples can be useful (unfortunately something is lost in the conversion to mp3 because of the very elusive sound of the clavichord)):

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=T8MTthGkfl8

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=3OTJU0mwyQg

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=3M0ZqetN7A8

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=1oOyXgNL6HU

Very nice with clear part playing and natural agogics. A strong case for the acquisition of the CDs.

The first of these four links does not work BTW.

And you did not tell me, if Arta accepts Visa card.

[prémont]

Antoine, do you think this is the same recording?

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/SESSIONID/22d46a7725f6c4527cdde565d1763a41/classic/detail/-/hnum/2061729?rk=classic&rsk=hitlist

[Antoine Marchand]

Very nice with clear part playing and natural agogics. A strong case for the acquisition of the CDs.

The first of these four links does not work BTW.

And you did not tell me, if Arta accepts Visa card.

... well, I paid with Visa. They use a secure server, but I don't remember the name. I ordered from Chile and the package (with a very homemade look) was in my home three weeks after. The prices are very low, but you must use a converter because they are expressed only in czech crowns.

I checked the first link and it's working out for me.

[prémont]

... well, I paid with Visa. They use a secure server, but I don't remember the name. I ordered from Chile and the package (with a very homemade look) was in my home three weeks after. The prices are very low, but you must use a converter because they are expressed only in czech crowns.

Thanks.

I checked the first link and it's working out for me.

I checked it out one more time, and it still does not work for me, but the three others are fine.

[Antoine Marchand]

Antoine, do you think this is the same recording?

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/SESSIONID/22d46a7725f6c4527cdde565d1763a41/classic/detail/-/hnum/2061729?rk=classic&rsk=hitlist

That's right, the same recording (all the four cds), but rather more expensive and AFIK jpc hasn't in stock the Goldbergs and the Inventions & Sinfonias

[Antoine Marchand]

Very beautiful and expressive, as I would expect the Aria proper and Var. XV to be. One might wonder if Var. XXVIII and XXIX work equally well on clavichord. A propos Jaroslav Tuma I own his most noble and distinguished Art of Fuge (on organ), for whom he also recorded the Clavierübung III on organ and the WTC I on harpsichord. Interesting to see, that he has embarked on a Bach/clavichord project like Richard Troeger. I always wondered, why the clavichord was so seldom used for recordings of Bachs keyboard music. The Inventions, French Suites and much of the WTC among other things work very well on clavichord, and even Richard Troegers Art of Fuge is a great and unusual pleasure.

Variatio XXVIII: http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=Qa7XB7M5M10

Variatio XXIX: http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=_Usjar7LwLY

I forgot to say that the Goldbergs include two cds: one played on two clavichords an the other on a harpsichord

[SonicMan46]

It's about Jaroslav Tuma playing the Goldberg Variations on two clavichords. The first one is an instrument built in 2004 and based on an original of 1761 by David Tannenberg and chosen as the lower manual for the pair of clavichords. On it stood a small clavichord that is a copy (2002) of a clavichord of 1787 built by Christian Gottlob Hubert of Ansbach.........................

Hi Antoine - getting in a little late to your posts in this thread, but the name David Tannenberg bolded above peaked my interest - I made a post in the 'listening thread' back in August (see below) about this instrument builder - I live in Winston-Salem, NC, so he is considered special here! 

Now, I love the clavichord, but have few recordings on that instrument - I believe that Bach actually loved the clavichord - the discs that you are linking look quite interesting to me, but just not sure about their availability in the USA, esp. considering pricing and shipping - I'd love to hear them, though - 

Just returned from a concert entitled Music in Revolutionary Salem held in the Old Salem Visitors Center - theme was music played in the late 18th century by known and now obscure composers, many of whom had some relationship (or their music) to Salem (since back then it was not called 'Old Salem' -  ) - the program was part of the Carolina Summer Music Festival, and was quite varied - one 'thrill' was hearing a completely restored organ (located in the Gray Auditorium of the visitor's center) built by David Tannenberg and originally installed in 1800 in the Home Moravian Church; dismantled in 1910, and held in storage until the 1990s - apparently, now back to its original appearance & sound!

I loved the sound of this organ - not big but with a soft and much more delicate sound than most BIG organs - as a result I bought a CD (below) which I'm now enjoying - from the dedication of the restored organ in 2004 w/ Peter Sykes playing the instrument - varied program of CPE Bach, Johann Krebs, Mozart, Mendelssohn, Christian Latrobe, and a 'new piece' by Dan Locklair, a local composer - even bought a short book on the rebuilding of this organ (also below) done by Taylor & Boody Organbuilders out of Staunton, VA (birthplace of Woodrow Wilson) - 

   

[prémont]

Variatio XXVIII: http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=Qa7XB7M5M10

Variatio XXIX: http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=_Usjar7LwLY

As I expected, I find, that these two variations work less well on clavichord. Some of the brilliance and effortlessness of the harpsichord is missing.

[Antoine Marchand]

Hi Antoine - getting in a little late to your posts in this thread, but the name David Tannenberg bolded above peaked my interest - I made a post in the 'listening thread' back in August (see below) about this instrument builder - I live in Winston-Salem, NC, so he is considered special here! 

Now, I love the clavichord, but have few recordings on that instrument - I believe that Bach actually loved the clavichord - the discs that you are linking look quite interesting to me, but just not sure about their availability in the USA, esp. considering pricing and shipping - I'd love to hear them, though - 

Hi, SonicMan, all roads led to Salem  , the town of the first American writer: Mr. Nathaniel Hawthorne. I love the Hawthorne's work, especially an amazing tale entitled "Wakefield" from the Twice-Told Tales.

BTW in the booklet of the Goldberg Variations, it's said about the clavichords:

"A large instrument built in 2002 and based on an original of 1761 by the organ-maker David Tannenberg (whose parents came from Moravia) living at the end of the 18th century in Pennsylvania, was used for the recording of the Goldberg Variations as the first manual. It is what is known as the unbound type of clavichord with a range of six octaves CC – c4. On top of it stood a small instrument with a range of 4 ½ octaves AA-e3, which is a copy of a clavichord of 1787 built by Christian Gottlob Hubert of Ansbach. This copy, completed in 2004, is from the private collection of Diez Eichler".

[SonicMan46]

Crystal clear, SonicMan    When I read "Old Salem" then I automatically thought in Hawthorne.

No problem - just trying to promote some tourism here for those 'passing through' the area - 

BTW - I've been to Salem, Mass. several times - another fun place to visit (and eat lobsters!) - Dave 

[Bunny]

I just listened to the Alan Curtis French Suites last night and I was struck by how similarly they sounded to the Rousset Ambroisie recording.  I think the Rousset might be a trifle better, especially wrt the instrument Rousset used, which imo has a nicer sound.  The accoustics of both recordings are very similar wrt reverb and soundstage.  However, the price of the Curtis recordings (and they also include the English suites in my set) is much lower -- if you can find the complete offering of 3 cds.

[Bulldog]

I just listened to the Alan Curtis French Suites last night and I was struck by how similarly they sounded to the Rousset Ambroisie recording.  I think the Rousset might be a trifle better, especially wrt the instrument Rousset used, which imo has a nicer sound.  The accoustics of both recordings are very similar wrt reverb and soundstage.  However, the price of the Curtis recordings (and they also include the English suites in my set) is much lower -- if you can find the complete offering of 3 cds.

I'm surprised you found the Curtis and Rousset soundstages similar.  Although I have no problem with the Curtis, I find that the Rousset is much too wet.

[Bunny]

I'm surprised you found the Curtis and Rousset soundstages similar.  Although I have no problem with the Curtis, I find that the Rousset is much too wet.

I don't think it's the accoustic so much as the difference between the two instruments, although the Ruckers is slightly more closely miked.  The harpsichord used by Rousset (the Ruckers) is just a stronger, more reverberant instrument which I have read is typical of the Flemish instruments, with more power in the bass registers.  There's also a marked difference in pitch as well with the Rousset instrument tuned almost a half tone lower than the Zell used by Curtis.  Rousset also varies the tempos of the suites more than Curtis so that the faster movements really zip especially after the slower movements which Rousset stretches out, exploiting the way the notes float through the air and decay. Curtis on the other hand seems to keep note values very close.  An eighth note played in a courante is very close to the same eighth note played in an allemande, etc.: the rhythms stay very close.  I also felt that Rousset's playing is a bit more fluid, and his embellishments were a little more natural sounding.

If I had the booklets handy I could see if anything was provided about the tuning, but the pitches are definitely different for the French Suites, and that's not a matter of the accoustic.  I think all of these factors increase the perception of the reverberance of the Rousset recording.  I can, however see how you might not enjoy something like this if you don't like reverb.  The Ruckers is an extremely sonorous instrument and Rousset is clearly enjoying the sound and exploiting it.  This is actually the recording that turned me off etymotics -- they just didn't convey the note decay.

[Bulldog]

I can, however see how you might not enjoy something like this if you don't like reverb. 

And I don't like it at all, although I'm aware that many love that type of sound.  For me, it reduces clarity, musical detail and conversational properties.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

And I don't like it at all, although I'm aware that many love that type of sound.  For me, it reduces clarity, musical detail and conversational properties.

I'm no fan of excess reverb either. In all the years it's something I've never been able to overcome.

78s give more pleasure than soggy reverb.

[Bunny]

And I don't like it at all, although I'm aware that many love that type of sound.  For me, it reduces clarity, musical detail and conversational properties.

I'm no fan of excess reverb either. In all the years it's something I've never been able to overcome.

78s give more pleasure than soggy reverb.

I'm really a sensualist when it comes to sound rather than an analyst.  I understand that structural clarity is going to be more apparent with less reverberance and less embellishment, but it's Baroque Art not Neo-Classical.  Where is the flamboyance and drama of Curtis's recording?  It's just not baroque enough for me.  When I hear the rich sound of the notes pouring out of the Ruckers, it's as if I can see each one floating through the air, sparkling like dust motes turned golden by the sun.  I just don't get that from Curtis's drier recording.  Sometimes it's not about hearing the structure or being able to analyze every word of the dialogue.  Sometimes it's about being transported to a different universe of colors and sounds that are more intense and vibrant.  For me Rousset's recording of the French Suites are the musical equivalent of Bernini's St. Theresa.  The little angel with his arrow pierces her heart the way the notes pierce mine.  The Curtis recording is quite fine, but the Rousset is extraordinary.

Donwyn, I don't know how I could live if all I could listen to were the pallid notes from a 78 recording.  I'd never even own a recording -- I'd just go to concerts rather than settle for such a poor representation.