Bach on the harpsichord, lute-harpsichord, clavichord

Started by Que, April 14, 2007, 01:30:11 AM

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Que

Quote from: jlaurson on December 28, 2008, 08:14:18 AM
If you can still get it (oop in North America), get it! It's the best thing since sliced bread. {Review on Ionarts}

And while you are at it, get his English and French Suites on Ambroise. Compared to these, the Decca recordings are merely "OK".

Yes, they are somewhat (err.... ridiculously) expensive [for the price of all three 2-CD albums you could get the complete works of Bach in the Brilliant Box), but they are worth it. Even I - and I am quite used to getting CDs for free - have spent the money for the full price on these and never regretted it. The sound blooms on the Ruckers harpsichord like you wouldn't believe (until you've heard it), and Rousset's rubato really brings every piece to live. (Not that Bach wouldn't be 'alive' even in lesser, or more rigid, performances.) The sound on these three discs is unrivaled -- or, if rivaled, only by Blandine Rannou and her very fine, superb Bach on Zig Zag Territories.

If I had to order these three in terms of preference/impressiveness, I'd opt for: 1.) Klavierbüchlein 2.) French Suites 3.) English Suites.

Thanks Jens. I had already the English & French Suites, and got the Klavierbüchlein meanwhile. :) (I already had his Bach recordings for Decca before he switched to Ambroisie.) Luckily MDT does an offer on Ambroise once in a while, which makes the financial burden a bit lighter. Or an incidental bargain on Amazon.

I second your praises for these recordings. Notwithstanding Rousset's matured interpretations on (arguably) better sounding recordings on Ambroisie (our don actually dislikes the sound), I wouldn't be without the Partitas or Goldbergs on Decca. The Partitas in particular are still unrivalled IMO.

Now we want a complete WTC! :D

Q

Bulldog

Quote from: Que on December 28, 2008, 04:24:07 AM
Don, Premont, how big a deal is the Levin? Nice or key recommendation?


I'd say nice to have.  The big thing about Levin's set is the variety of instrumentation, not the performances (although there's nothing wrong with them).

Bulldog

Let me just restate my views on Rousset (Decca vs. Ambroise):

Decca sounds excellent - Ambroise sounds like Rousset is playing in his bathtub.

Decca performances outstanding - Ambroise performances very good (but it's hard to really tell with the swimming sound).

Let me also restate that I prefer recordings on the dry side which is why I also dislike Hantai's WTC Bk. 1 where some important musical lines get swallowed up by the wet acoustics.

As an aside, I also very much like Rannou's performances on Zig Zag.

I thought I had dumped my copies of Rousset/Ambroise, but I still have them.  Will give another try and report back.

jlaurson

Quote from: Bulldog on December 28, 2008, 11:56:52 AM
Let me just restate my views on Rousset (Decca vs. Ambroise):
Decca sounds excellent - Ambroise sounds like Rousset is playing in his bathtub.
Let me also restate that I prefer recordings on the dry side
I thought I had dumped my copies of Rousset/Ambroise, but I still have them.  Will give another try and report back.
Well, those are perfectly legitimate preferences, and unless they change, your opinion of these recordings won't much, either. The sound's wet is wet is wet.
Although I would posit that quite a lot of that comes from the instrument (spanking new soundboard, for one) and not from the recording itself. But it surely is the recording to undo Beecham's quip about harpsichords, no? (Or at least if that's how it sounds when... I want in on the action.)

Bulldog

Quote from: jlaurson on December 28, 2008, 12:10:40 PM
Well, those are perfectly legitimate preferences, and unless they change, your opinion of these recordings won't much, either. The sound's wet is wet is wet.

Well, I'm going with the notion that I kept the discs just in case I would find them more appealing in the future.  Since I haven't listened to them for over a year, the future is now.

Bunny

Quote from: jlaurson on December 28, 2008, 08:14:18 AM
If you can still get it (oop in North America), get it! It's the best thing since sliced bread. {Review on Ionarts}

And while you are at it, get his English and French Suites on Ambroise. Compared to these, the Decca recordings are merely "OK".

  

Yes, they are somewhat (err.... ridiculously) expensive [for the price of all three 2-CD albums you could get the complete works of Bach in the Brilliant Box), but they are worth it. Even I - and I am quite used to getting CDs for free - have spent the money for the full price on these and never regretted it. The sound blooms on the Ruckers harpsichord like you wouldn't believe (until you've heard it), and Rousset's rubato really brings every piece to live. (Not that Bach wouldn't be 'alive' even in lesser, or more rigid, performances.) The sound on these three discs is unrivaled -- or, if rivaled, only by Blandine Rannou and her very fine, superb Bach on Zig Zag Territories.

If I had to order these three in terms of preference/impressiveness, I'd opt for: 1.) Klavierbüchlein 2.) French Suites 3.) English Suites.




I feel the same way!  And I also think Rousset's French suites are better than the English.

premont

#166
Quote from: Que on December 28, 2008, 04:24:07 AM
Don, Premont, how big a deal is the Levin? Nice or key recommendation?

His playing is very vital, containing nuch rhythmical energy - like say Pinnock (who has not recorded the complete WTC, I compare their playing styles), but Levin is generally a more imaginative player still without being idiosyncratic.The different instruments he uses are of course an attraction. On the other hand they imbue the recording with a disturbing inhomogeneous character when you are listening in one sitting, and modern listeners tend to do so.

Another set on Philips by Daniel Chorzempa shares much the same characteristics (also the use of different instruments), but the playing is even more tense and concentrated.

Both are worthwile, and as I am a near-completist in these matters, they are must-have´s for me. Though I am not sure this applies to you.
γνῶθι σεαυτόν

Bulldog

I gave Rousset's English Suites another go last night.  In order to enjoy the performances, I had to use my trusty equalizer and make many dramatic adjustments.  Still, I was quite weary by the end of it all - the harpsichord sound is so BRIGHT.  I did love some of the fast movements where Rousset is a tower of energy and excitement (such as the last two movements of Partita 1).  It isn't a set I will return to in the near future.

jlaurson

Quote from: Bulldog on December 29, 2008, 01:48:49 PM
I gave Rousset's English Suites another go last night.  In order to enjoy the performances, I had to use my trusty equalizer and make many dramatic adjustments.  Still, I was quite weary by the end of it all - the harpsichord sound is so BRIGHT.

Bright?? Huh... now that's a problem I certainly don't have with those recordings. Rich, sated, "wet", blooming... I'd even agree with "a wash of sound". But "bright"? If anything, I find it less bright than many another harpsichord recording. I'd say it might be your speakers, but then all recordings should sound bright to you, which I assume they do not.

(And I won't even touch the point of an equalizer is anathema to hifi... sounds like: "I had to add ketchup to my goose liver foie gras to make it edible".  :) )

Bulldog

Quote from: jlaurson on December 29, 2008, 08:54:00 PM
Bright?? Huh... now that's a problem I certainly don't have with those recordings. Rich, sated, "wet", blooming... I'd even agree with "a wash of sound". But "bright"? If anything, I find it less bright than many another harpsichord recording. I'd say it might be your speakers, but then all recordings should sound bright to you, which I assume they do not.

(And I won't even touch the point of an equalizer is anathema to hifi... sounds like: "I had to add ketchup to my goose liver foie gras to make it edible".  :) )

Makes little difference which speakers or headphones I use - VERY BRIGHT.

I don't share your disdain for equalizers.  Sometimes, it's the best way to minimize a sound feature that's very annoying.  I know a guy who not only hates equalizers, he also will only keep the audio controls in the "flat" position (stubborn as hell).


Antoine Marchand

In August 2007 the harpsichordist Elizabeth Farr recorded two exceptional Cds (on Naxos 8.570470-71) with Bach music played on a lute-harpsichord reconstructed from Bach's own specifications (by Keith Hill)  :).

Here an interesting interview with Farr and some excerpts from her recordings: http://blog.naxos.com/?s=farr&x=0&y=0

Warmly recommended (both the Cds and the interview)


Bunny

Quote from: Bulldog on December 29, 2008, 01:48:49 PM
I gave Rousset's English Suites another go last night.  In order to enjoy the performances, I had to use my trusty equalizer and make many dramatic adjustments.  Still, I was quite weary by the end of it all - the harpsichord sound is so BRIGHT.  I did love some of the fast movements where Rousset is a tower of energy and excitement (such as the last two movements of Partita 1).  It isn't a set I will return to in the near future.

If it sounds bright, I think there is either a problem with your recording (duds do happen) or your sound system.  The sound over my speakers is not bright, whether played with my tube amp or my solid state amp.

Bulldog

Quote from: Bunny on January 06, 2009, 06:35:23 AM
If it sounds bright, I think there is either a problem with your recording (duds do happen) or your sound system.  The sound over my speakers is not bright, whether played with my tube amp or my solid state amp.

My sound system is fine.  Actually, I have five different sound systems and tried out the Rousset on each of them with fairly consistent results.

Of course, there's always the possibility that my particular copy of the Rousset is a dud.  However, that's not likely because I know of other folks who also have a problem with the sound, whether it's called too bright, too wet, too much reverberation or overly resonant.  I specifically recall a review on Fanfare of the English Suites which commented negatively on the sound characteristics that tended to blur musical detail.

So, I stand by my previous comments and take some solace from knowing that I'm not alone.  The sound on some excellent recordings of the English Suites, such as from Kenneth Gilbert and Alan Curtis, is much more to my liking.








jlaurson

Quote from: Bulldog on January 08, 2009, 07:01:19 AM
My sound system is fine.  Actually, I have five different sound systems and tried out the Rousset on each of them with fairly consistent results.

Of course, there's always the possibility that my particular copy of the Rousset is a dud.  However, that's not likely because I know of other folks who also have a problem with the sound, whether it's called too bright, too wet, too much reverberation or overly resonant.  I specifically recall a review on Fanfare of the English Suites which commented negatively on the sound characteristics that tended to blur musical detail.

So, I stand by my previous comments...

Yes, I think it's a (dramatic!) difference in defining "bright".

Bulldog

Speaking of sound properties, last night I listened to what I'd call about perfect sound in a Delphian disc of Pachelbel organ music played by Matthew Owens (vol. 2) on the Frobenius Organ at Canongate Kirk, Edinburgh.  A stunning disc of exceptional performances.

SonicMan46

Quote from: Antoine Marchand on January 05, 2009, 06:07:54 PM
In August 2007 the harpsichordist Elizabeth Farr recorded two exceptional Cds (on Naxos 8.570470-71) with Bach music played on a lute-harpsichord reconstructed from Bach's own specifications (by Keith Hill)  :).

Here an interesting interview with Farr and some excerpts from her recordings: http://blog.naxos.com/?s=farr&x=0&y=0

Antoine - thanks for the recommendation and link; I have several performances of Elizabeth Farr that are superb but I've not heard the one mentioned; however, I recently purchased the disc below of Bach on the Lute-Harpsichord w/ Robert Hill (has been recommended in this thread earlier) - works included HERE:)


Bulldog

Between the Farr and Hill recordings, I have to go with Hill.  He's more nuanced than Farr, and his recording has richer sound with gorgeous bass response.

SonicMan46

Quote from: Bulldog on January 08, 2009, 09:48:30 AM
Between the Farr and Hill recordings, I have to go with Hill.  He's more nuanced than Farr, and his recording has richer sound with gorgeous bass response.

Don - not having heard the Farr (which received some 'negative' comments on Amazon, which seemed to me valid), I must say that the Hill disc is superb for an excellent introduction to this instrument; interestingly, the Lute-Harpsichords used in both of these recordings were built by Keith Hill (an important fact since none of these instruments have survived) - there seems to be a lot of options in 'reconstructing' this 'gut-strunged harpsichord' which impacts on the sound & performance - fascinating and need to explore more recordings; so, hopefully additionally recommendations will follow - Dave  :D

Antoine Marchand

Quote from: Bulldog on January 08, 2009, 09:48:30 AM
Between the Farr and Hill recordings, I have to go with Hill.  He's more nuanced than Farr, and his recording has richer sound with gorgeous bass response.

I have the Works for Lute-Harpsichord by Robert Hill and his recordings Bach as Teacher (partially on lute-harpsichord). And for me Hill and Farr aren't mutually exclusive alternatives, especially when there are so few recordings on lute-harpsichord and the coincidences between the pieces recorded by them are only partial.

But curiously I disagree with your two statements:

Robert Hill is a great performer, but a little bit nervous guy, sometimes on the fast side. The contrary Farr is a very relaxed and detailed performer. IMHO her playing is great here.

On the other hand, both instruments were constructed by Keith Hill, but with advantage for the instrument on Naxos (with two keyboards) because it was made after the Bach's specifications delivered for one of the Lautenwerks in his personal collection. This instrument is rather warm, varied and more lute than theorbo, unlike the instrument used by Robert Hill.



Bulldog

Quote from: Antoine Marchand on January 08, 2009, 06:48:51 PM

Robert Hill is a great performer, but a little bit nervous guy, sometimes on the fast side. The contrary Farr is a very relaxed and detailed performer. IMHO her playing is great here.

But there are times when Farr is the quicker performer, and I don't find anything nervous about Hill.  However, you're certainly right that there aren't many recordings available on the lute-harpsichord, so grab them up as they enter the market.