Bach on the harpsichord, lute-harpsichord, clavichord

[DarkAngel]

All the recordings by Andrea Staier I have were performance on fortepiano ...

The Staier boxset above uses two harpsicords:
-replica of Michael Mietke, Berlin 1702-1704 (CD 1)
-replica of Vorbildern, Germany 1740 (CD 2,3,4)

Keeping things German for Bach..........

[prémont]

Harmonia Mundi has kindly collected together a reduced price 4CD boxset of Andreas Staier performances of Bach, just listened to the partitas and have not heard any better for harpsicord including newest Pinnock set, contents:

1)fantasies and fuges (10)
2)partitas 1,2,3
3)partitas 4,5,6
4)Italian Concerto, French Overture

Well, I think the CD with Fantasies and Fugues is rather good, but in Staiers Clavierübung II and III I do not hear much other than inarticulate show-off, and actually I have parted with the Clavierübung set again.

[jlaurson]

Harmonia Mundi has kindly collected together a reduced price 4CD boxset of Andreas Staier performances of Bach...

Deutsche Harmonia Mundi, to be precise. Originally the German 'brother' label of Harmonia Mundi (sharing the name with its French pendant) before they split and "Deutsche" Harmonia Mundi became an imprint of EMI (until the late 80s). In 1989 BMG took over distribution, in 1991 it bought DHM outright and it has since been part of the Sony/RCA/BMG family.

[DarkAngel]

Well, I think the CD with Fantasies and Fugues is rather good, but in Staiers Clavierübung II and III I do not hear much other than inarticulate show-off, and actually I have parted with the Clavierübung set again.

As an alternative what do you consider best harpsicord partitas?

One person's "inarticulate show-off" is another person's thrilling performance, I love Staier's Bach

[Bulldog]

As an alternative what do you consider best harpsicord partitas?

For me, it was Leonhardt, Tureck and Gould for many years.  However, Craig Sheppard's set on Romeo now gets my vote; somewhat like Gould at his best without all the humming.

[prémont]

As an alternative what do you consider best harpsicord partitas?

Gustav Leonhardt, either the DHM or EMI recording, Lars Ulrik Mortensen (Kontrapunkt), Kenneth Gilbert (Harmonia Mundi), Walcha (EMI), to mention some.

One person's "inarticulate show-off" is another person's thrilling performance, I love Staier's Bach

Not always. Some degree of objectivity is possible.

[SonicMan46]

For me, it was Leonhardt, Tureck and Gould for many years.  However, Craig Sheppard's set on Romeo now gets my vote; somewhat like Gould at his best without all the humming.

The Rousset 4-CD box below includes the Goldberg Variations & the Partitas, plus more, of course on the harpsichord - is this performer 'in the running'?

For piano, I have the 2-CD Nimbus set w/ Roberts - Don's mention of Sheppard, however, interests me (I like his Bk. 1 WTC) - I'm assuming the latter was a 'live' recording (but hopefully audience noise/clapping were eliminated, at least my preference) - 

 

[Bulldog]

The Rousset 4-CD box below includes the Goldberg Variations & the Partitas, plus more, of course on the harpsichord - is this performer 'in the running'?

For piano, I have the 2-CD Nimbus set w/ Roberts - Don's mention of Sheppard, however, interests me (I like his Bk. 1 WTC) - I'm assuming the latter was a 'live' recording (but hopefully audience noise/clapping were eliminated, at least my preference) - 

 

I forgot about the Partitas from Rousset - definitely one of the best. 

There's a world of difference between the Roberts and Sheppard.  Roberts is good for driving, Sheppard for full attention.  I have noticed that Roberts is much more interesting and adventurous in his live recordings; in the studio, he likes to play nice.

[Antoine Marchand]

Listened to it once, about a month ago. Did not impress me much. Shall relisten after another bunch of Beethoven piano sonatas / Lewis.

Do you have any chance to listen to again TAoF by Vartolo, Premont?

BTW, I have finished agreeing with you about Lewis, especially because of his total insensitivity and uniformity on tempi and agogics. 

[DarkAngel]

The Rousset 4-CD box below includes the Goldberg Variations & the Partitas, plus more, of course on the harpsichord - is this performer 'in the running'?

Yes the Rousset and new Pinnock harpsicord partitas are very nice.............I would like to hear Rousset record these again for Ambroise label, I think they would be even better as his style has changed over the years as heard on his English and French suites.

We are confusing things discussing piano versions in on the harpsicord thread..............

[DarkAngel]

Not always. Some degree of objectivity is possible.

Just because some members here share some agreement about favorite performers does not make them the correct or best way to perform a Bach piece, these are all subjective opinions........

Unless you are saying an artist like Staier is not capable of physically playing the music on the sheets in front of him, then Staier is making subjective choices about what instrument to use and what style he wants to play the piece. We should not assume that we can make an objective case that he is doing it worse than say Leonhardt......you are just giving your opinion, as do I when I say I prefer Staier 

[Bulldog]

Just because some members here share some agreement about favorite performers does not make them the correct or best way to perform a Bach piece, these are all subjective opinions........

Unless you are saying an artist like Staier is not capable of physically playing the music on the sheets in front of him, then Staier is making subjective choices about what instrument to use and what style he wants to play the piece. We should not assume that we can make an objective case that he is doing it worse than say Leonhardt......you are just giving your opinion, as do I when I say I prefer Staier 

Fortunately, there are some objective elements such as the use of agogic pauses, hesitations, staccato etc.  Of course, those are just descriptive elements that say nothing about artistry.

[Coopmv]

Just because some members here share some agreement about favorite performers does not make them the correct or best way to perform a Bach piece, these are all subjective opinions........

Unless you are saying an artist like Staier is not capable of physically playing the music on the sheets in front of him, then Staier is making subjective choices about what instrument to use and what style he wants to play the piece. We should not assume that we can make an objective case that he is doing it worse than say Leonhardt......you are just giving your opinion, as do I when I say I prefer Staier 

DA,    I hear you.  That is why I do not summarily brush off reviews on Amazon as some forum members do when that number exceeds 20 or more for a given recording.  While most  Amazon reviewers do not write for Fanfare but many of them appear to be quite knowledgeable.  Knowledge is something no one can monopolize, particularly in the age of internet. 

[prémont]

Do you have any chance to listen to again TAoF by Vartolo, Premont?

Yes, it is on my shelf. But it will have to wait until wednesday or so.

BTW, I have finished agreeing with you about Lewis, especially because of his total insensitivity and uniformity on tempi and agogics. 

What I expected.

[Bulldog]

DA,    I hear you.  That is why I do not summarily brush off reviews on Amazon as some forum members do when that number exceeds 20 or more for a given recording.  While most  Amazon reviewers do not write for Fanfare but many of them appear to be quite knowledgeable.  Knowledge is something no one can monopolize, particularly in the age of internet.

The problem is that knowledge doesn't translate into shared preference.  I very much enjoy reading the opinions of others, but there is no substitute for my own preferences.  As an example, I have read many favorable comments about Beausejour's WTC I.  Unfortunately, I concluded his account is not worthy.

[prémont]

Do you have any chance to listen to again TAoF by Vartolo, Premont?

Relistening to Vartolo´s Art of Fugue was a mixed blessing, so to say.

He uses a wonderful, resonant instrument and he is superbly recorded. And he has got a really noble and sensitive touch and articulation. And his generally deliberate pace does not bother me at all. What on the other hand bothers me, is his completely inconsistent relation to tempo and rhythm. He changes the tempo all the time, and contrary to e.g. Wolfgang Rübsam, he does not revert to a basic pulse after his excesses. Of course he tries to be "expressive", but IMO he detracts very much from the greatness of the music and spoils the flow of the music. Add to this, that his changes of registration in many Contrapuncti  are superfluous and seem contrieved (e.g..end of four part mirror Cpt.s).  Concluding I find, that he pastes unwanted personal expressive measures into the music much in the same way as e.g. Glenn Gould (in Gould´s case not as to tempo but as to articulation), whom I find rightout irritating for the same reason.

[DarkAngel]

Here is something I am really looking forward to, Andreas Staier version of Goldberg Variations.
Presto UK will be selling this Feb. 2010..........it will be mine 

[Antoine Marchand]

Relistening to Vartolo´s Art of Fugue was a mixed blessing, so to say.

He uses a wonderful, resonant instrument and he is superbly recorded. And he has got a really noble and sensitive touch and articulation. And his generally deliberate pace does not bother me at all. What on the other hand bothers me, is his completely inconsistent relation to tempo and rhythm. He changes the tempo all the time, and contrary to e.g. Wolfgang Rübsam, he does not revert to a basic pulse after his excesses. Of course he tries to be "expressive", but IMO he detracts very much from the greatness of the music and spoils the flow of the music. Add to this, that his changes of registration in many Contrapuncti  are superfluous and seem contrieved (e.g..end of four part mirror Cpt.s).  Concluding I find, that he pastes unwanted personal expressive measures into the music much in the same way as e.g. Glenn Gould (in Gould´s case not as to tempo but as to articulation), whom I find rightout irritating for the same reason.

Hi, Premont. I agree about all your favorable points on Vartolo's recording (instrument, sound quality, touch and articulation) , but I don't feel his changes of pulse during the performance as being detrimental to the greatness of the work. On the contrary, I feel them like very welcomed touches of sober expressiveness. I like equally the recording and the performance, particularly that immense contrapunctistic clarity brought by Vartolo to this set. Besides, his documentation is impressive, especially in the extended version of the booklet available on-line:  www.naxos.com/libretti/570577.htm   

In short, one of my preferred versions together with Leonhardt, Menno van Delft and, probably, Robert Hill (I don't have Walcha's version yet). 

[Bulldog]

Relistening to Vartolo´s Art of Fugue was a mixed blessing, so to say.

He uses a wonderful, resonant instrument and he is superbly recorded. And he has got a really noble and sensitive touch and articulation. And his generally deliberate pace does not bother me at all. What on the other hand bothers me, is his completely inconsistent relation to tempo and rhythm. He changes the tempo all the time, and contrary to e.g. Wolfgang Rübsam, he does not revert to a basic pulse after his excesses. Of course he tries to be "expressive", but IMO he detracts very much from the greatness of the music and spoils the flow of the music. Add to this, that his changes of registration in many Contrapuncti  are superfluous and seem contrieved (e.g..end of four part mirror Cpt.s).  Concluding I find, that he pastes unwanted personal expressive measures into the music much in the same way as e.g. Glenn Gould (in Gould´s case not as to tempo but as to articulation), whom I find rightout irritating for the same reason.

There you go - I don't find either Vartolo or Gould irritating.  I used to hate tempo changes such as those used by Vartolo, but in recent years I'm smitten with them (for the most part).

[prémont]

In short, one of my preferred versions together with Leonhardt, Menno van Delft and, probably, Robert Hill (I don't have Walcha's version yet). 

If we are talking of harpsichord versions exclusively, I share these your preferences - would add Moroney though, maybe instead of Hill. Especially I enjoy the calm pace and clear part playing of van Delft. And Leonhardt, who´s intense expressivity of course is very individual, but which in these ears borders congeniality. Hill is competent but a bit too hard driven for my taste, finding him more convincing elsewhere. Moroney delivers at first listening maybe the most "objective" interpretation of all, but repeated listening uncovers his introvert expression.