Bach on the harpsichord, lute-harpsichord, clavichord

[Coopmv]

Kirkpatrick´s Bach harpsichord recordings for Archive from the late 1950es and the early 1960es are certainly most interesting. It is amazing how many strange but still efficient sounds he could "worm" out from his far from period Neupert model Bach harpsichord, and his rhytmic sense is mesmerizing. He was an extrovert and energetic kind of artist and one looks (almost) in vain for introspection, but it is certainly fun and stimulating. I am less convicted by his clavichord recordings. IMO his playing is too extrovert to the intimate character of that instrument.

IIRC, Kirkpatrick was professor of harpsichord at Yale and was a musicologist in addition to being an outstanding harpsichordist.  I bought the following set over a year ago.  I also have his WTC I & II ...

[milk]

There's nothing strange about Levin's set; I just think of it as a diverse use of instruments.

Concerning my Goldbergs reviews, and a few others, the key to going through dozens of versions is to possess a great love of the music.  At one time, I was going to do similar reviews of the Brandenburgs.  I lined up the versions I owned and acquired many more in preparation.  Unfortunately, I found that my love of those works wasn't strong enough for me to spend so much time on this one project.  I learned from that mistake.

Well the reviews are a great service to listeners. I go back to them again and again for insights. Many thanks!

[milk]

There's nothing strange about Levin's set; I just think of it as a diverse use of instruments.

Concerning my Goldbergs reviews, and a few others, the key to going through dozens of versions is to possess a great love of the music.  At one time, I was going to do similar reviews of the Brandenburgs.  I lined up the versions I owned and acquired many more in preparation.  Unfortunately, I found that my love of those works wasn't strong enough for me to spend so much time on this one project.  I learned from that mistake.

I think it was your reviews that first led me to the Levin set. I wonder what you think of the new Staier...Variation 20, for example, is marvelous (for me).

[milk]

There's nothing strange about Levin's set; I just think of it as a diverse use of instruments.

Concerning my Goldbergs reviews, and a few others, the key to going through dozens of versions is to possess a great love of the music.  At one time, I was going to do similar reviews of the Brandenburgs.  I lined up the versions I owned and acquired many more in preparation.  Unfortunately, I found that my love of those works wasn't strong enough for me to spend so much time on this one project.  I learned from that mistake.

I think it was you who once said that you couldn't enjoy classical music that doesn't have a keyboard. I can't listen to much classical without a keyboard (except for occasional lute music and some choral music). I posted in the forum about the NY Times top 10 list. I wonder what a list of top ten keyboard composers would look like. I have my favorites. Of course Bach is Ichiban! It would be interesting for me to see this idea played out in the other forum.

[Mandryka]

IIRC, Kirkpatrick was professor of harpsichord at Yale and was a musicologist in addition to being an outstanding harpsichordist.  I bought the following set over a year ago.  I also have his WTC I & II ...

One of the things tht's very good about the style there is that he's often so irreverent and good humoured.

So often with the harpsichordists recommended here -- Leonhardt especially, but also  Wilson and Cates -- they are sometimes serious and scholarly with the music. Kirkpatrick is often an antidote to that -- a reminder that there are other ways. Same for Walcha at his best (like in the English suites); Landowska at her best (pre-war); Puyana . . .

[Bulldog]

I think it was you who once said that you couldn't enjoy classical music that doesn't have a keyboard.

I sure don't remember saying anything like the above.  Although solo keyboard is my favorite category, I also enjoy string and wind chamber music, concertos of all types, orchestral music/symphonies, sacred choral works and even a few operas.

Concerning Staier's Goldbergs, I haven't heard it yet(except for snippets on the JPC website).

[Bulldog]

I wonder what a list of top ten keyboard composers would look like. I have my favorites. Of course Bach is Ichiban! It would be interesting for me to see this idea played out in the other forum.

My top ten would be:

Bach - Froberger - Buxtehude - Schumann - Beethoven - Schubert - Chopin - Scriabin - Shostakovich - Ravel.

[Marc]

Listening to the French Suites played by Joseph Payne, the man of the famous/notorious Spaced-Out Bach LP's in the seventies (never heard them, though).

The suites were originally released by BIS and then sold to Brilliant Classics for their Bach Integral.



It's solid playing IMHO, but really nothing more. Rather stiff even, and the instrument is also sounding a bit 'light-weight', with problems concerning the lute stop. Some of the lower notes don't sound like a lute but return to the 'normal' harpsichord sound, as if the machinery isn't working properly.
Whilst I was listening I thought: if Payne played the organ in this style, with proper registrations, it would sound quite good. I have neglected the harpsichord for the last few years because of my sudden fast and furious growing love for the organ, but could it be that playing Bach on a harpsichord requires a more involved and imaginative way of playing, just because the organ is more able to decorate the music with various beautiful registration possibilities? Just wondering.

[jlaurson]

Spurred by this thread I'm doing a Partitas survey  for a possible 2nd harpsichord recording (next to Rousset, which is admittedly in a very personal style). Suzuki sounds very good indeed, Leonhardt is off the list  - I have never been big on him and he skips repeats.

Anyone familiar with this?


Francesco Corti - Partitas - Berlin Classics

I'm re-listening to them right now. Very good stuff but without that immediate kick that would make you (or me, at least) recommend it to everyone who utters the word "Partita". Not as personal as Rousset (though I wish he'd record his Partitas anew on the ApArTe label and that Neuchâtel Ruckers or the "Nightingale" Colmar Ruckers that Schornsheim used for her WTC I [not yet released].

Sturdy, solid... wonderful to listen to very loud. I must be annoying tons of neighbors right now. :-)



(some partitas on piano: http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=2890 --- though it doesn't mention (at the time I had not heard it) how truly, truly excellent Schiff's second (!!) recording (ECM) is.

A sigh of relief! I love these versions so (Gilbert's Goldberg is also great) and another version might be a distraction! I just can't resist when there's a consensus on the merits of an interpretation I don't have. I've often put my finger near the download button for Kirkpatrick but always stopped short.

Kirkpatrick - Complete Archiv Bach Recordings - Archiv

I recently "had" to recommend this set to a pianist (or rather the WTC from it) because it's really the only easily available WTC on the clavichord. Felt kind of guilty about it, because I think it's the most deadly boring Bach. His premonitions (see quote) turned out to be true for him, too. It's just one of those things one wants to be better than it really is, I feel.

"Ha! Now I remember. When I was a Tanglewood student (playing WTC I for the first time...), I heard the Kirpatrick in the "listening lab." I recall nothing whatsoever about the performances. And I know I heard the whole thing."

WTC on Clavichord:


Jaroslav Tuma (Supraphon). Unfortunately his set(s) seem out of print in the US and are available only as downloads:
Book 1

The complete, 4-disc of Books 1 & 2, set is available from Germany, though:



Robert Levin plays his WTC on three different instruments: fortepiano, organ, and the clavichord (Haenssler):
Book 1

Book 2


Daniel Chorzempa (Philips) has a similar multi-instrumented approach that includes the clavichord.
His cycle (both books) seems solidly out of print... last seen in Austria.

Michael Thomas (Psyche). Never made if off LP, I think.

Ditto Hermann Iseringhausen (MDG).

Colin Tilney (hyperion) uses the clavichord and harpsichord.
Out of print... a few copies left used in the US (and Germany):

And most famously, if perhaps not most convincingly, of all:

Ralph Kirkpatrick on Archiv:
Book I

Book II

Collected performances.
(WTC not included? I can't remember... It's been a while since I've had that set which I could not bother to keep.)

[Mandryka]

Thankyou for your list.

I don't think that the box in the pic contains the WTC, does it? I may be mistaken.

Anyway, I can't agree with your rather dismissive judgement.   I think his WTC on clavichord is really exciting.


Listen, for example, to Kirkpatrick on clavichord in the E flat minor and E major of Book  1.  Joyful, committed, colourful music making. I love the instrument --  I love the way it's so un-slick. Intimate and gentle  in the gentle  prelude to the E flat minor; rustic in the  E major fugue. And the  quietness (amp turned down) makes these pieces fit my living room  perfectly.

[Coopmv]

Thankyou for your list.

I don't think that the box in the pic contains the WTC, does it? I may be mistaken.

Anyway, I can't agree with your rather dismissive judgement.   I think his WTC on clavichord is really exciting.


Listen, for example, to Kirkpatrick on clavichord in the E flat minor and E major of Book  1.  Joyful, committed, colourful music making. I love the instrument --  I love the way it's so un-slick. Intimate and gentle  in the gentle  prelude to the E flat minor; rustic in the  E major fugue. And the  quietness (amp turned down) makes these pieces fit my living room  perfectly.

You are correct.  The Kirkpatrick's box does not include the WTC's.  They are pretty easy to find and I bought both WTC I and II last year as well ...

[Coopmv]

Listening to the French Suites played by Joseph Payne, the man of the famous/notorious Spaced-Out Bach LP's in the seventies (never heard them, though).

The suites were originally released by BIS and then sold to Brilliant Classics for their Bach Integral.



It's solid playing IMHO, but really nothing more. Rather stiff even, and the instrument is also sounding a bit 'light-weight', with problems concerning the lute stop. Some of the lower notes don't sound like a lute but return to the 'normal' harpsichord sound, as if the machinery isn't working properly.
Whilst I was listening I thought: if Payne played the organ in this style, with proper registrations, it would sound quite good. I have neglected the harpsichord for the last few years because of my sudden fast and furious growing love for the organ, but could it be that playing Bach on a harpsichord requires a more involved and imaginative way of playing, just because the organ is more able to decorate the music with various beautiful registration possibilities? Just wondering.

Here is a wonderful CD I bought in the early 90's.  At the time, the Yale Manuscript had only been recently discovered ...

[Antoine Marchand]

The trick to coming to terms with Kptk's clavichord recording is to turn the amplifier volume down very low...

You're right, but I think that's the "trick" to listen to the clavichord in general because it's an instrument thought to speak in sotto voce, quietly; for that reason it's probably the most "domestic" of all the usual Baroque keyboards, a wonderful instrument, for instance, to practice when the family was sleeping. Unfortunately, the great majority of us grew up in a world which only knew a single keyboard instrument (and I am a big piano fan, especially if it is a fortepiano or a pianoforte) and our ideas about keyboards are totally modelled on it.

Anyway, I suspect you  have a predilection for contemplative introspective  interpretations. But maybe I'm wrong  (you did say you like Verlet -- I've bought the Astree! Velet's  the exception that proves the rule maybe.)

I think Verlet is not one of the natural preferences of our Premont; in any case, a laboriously acquired taste.    Anyway, I love Verlet's second rendition of the Partitas, so personal, feminine and turbulent at times that it's really irresistible to me (I have thought about that version as a sort of intimate diary)... Additionally, she delivers my favorite second partita (and the second partita is my favorite piece of that Clavier-Übung).   

[Coopmv]

The trick to coming to terms with Kptk's clavichord recording is to turn the amplifier volume down very low.

This can be tricky if the amplifier does not have good low volume resolution ...

[Marc]

Here is a wonderful CD I bought in the early 90's.  At the time, the Yale Manuscript had only been recently discovered ...

Thanks for the tip! Ordered it at the library. I'm curious how Payne treats these Neumeisters.

Post Scriptum: there is a plus to Payne's French Suites: even though they are less interesting to take a deep dive in, it's good working and/or reading with the sound of these performances on the background.

[Antoine Marchand]

Listening to the French Suites played by Joseph Payne, the man of the famous/notorious Spaced-Out Bach LP's in the seventies (never heard them, though).

The suites were originally released by BIS and then sold to Brilliant Classics for their Bach Integral.



It's solid playing IMHO, but really nothing more. Rather stiff even, and the instrument is also sounding a bit 'light-weight', with problems concerning the lute stop. Some of the lower notes don't sound like a lute but return to the 'normal' harpsichord sound, as if the machinery isn't working properly.
Whilst I was listening I thought: if Payne played the organ in this style, with proper registrations, it would sound quite good. I have neglected the harpsichord for the last few years because of my sudden fast and furious growing love for the organ, but could it be that playing Bach on a harpsichord requires a more involved and imaginative way of playing, just because the organ is more able to decorate the music with various beautiful registration possibilities? Just wondering.

I agree with you. Beyond the performance (and "stiff" is a good adjective, IMO) the instrument (a 1979 copy by William Dowd after a two-manual instrument of Johannes Ruckers, 1628) is not working out properly, although my problem is not principally with its lute-stop, but with the "normal" sound of the harpsichord, especially the high notes which sound quite shrilling and unstable in these ears.

Joseph Payne is not a favorite of mine, but I enjoyed his Klavierbüchlein for Wilhelm Friedemann Bach recorded on Hänssler, principally because of the variety of instruments and maybe because his less flexible style is not inappropriate to the propaedeutic goals of this collection.

[Kontrapunctus]

Olga Martynova has made some wonderful SACD recordings for Caro Mitis, a Russian audiophile label.

[Marc]

Olga Martynova has made some wonderful SACD recordings for Caro Mitis, a Russian audiophile label.

Thanks for the tip!
Made me curious enough to ....

[prémont]

The trick to coming to terms with Kptk's clavichord recording is to turn the amplifier volume down very low.

Of course, but I do not think it makes wonders in the case of Kirkpatrick. As I wrote above - I do not think his way of playing suits the instrument.

Anyway, I suspect you  have a predilection for contemplative introspective  interpretations. But maybe I'm wrong  (you did say you like Verlet -- I've bought the Astree! Velet's  the exception that proves the rule maybe.)

You may be right, but I can mention many other exceptions, which prove the rule. 

[prémont]

It's solid playing IMHO, but really nothing more. Rather stiff even, and the instrument is also sounding a bit 'light-weight',

Yes, deserves oblivion IMO.

Whilst I was listening I thought: if Payne played the organ in this style, with proper registrations, it would sound quite good. I have neglected the harpsichord for the last few years because of my sudden fast and furious growing love for the organ, but could it be that playing Bach on a harpsichord requires a more involved and imaginative way of playing, just because the organ is more able to decorate the music with various beautiful registration possibilities? Just wondering.

Not sure. In my experience it is more difficult to articulate clearly on an organ (even on a small organ in a small church with ultra dry acoustics) than on a harpsichord because of the marginally slower action of the organ trackers. And articulation is IMO more important for the interest than registration - within sensible limits of course. On the other hand you are right in assuming, that Joseph Payne´s organ recordings are more interesting than his harpsichord recordings. He has BTW made a small number of interesting harpsichord recordings f.i. a recording of music by John Bull and another with suites ascribed to Pachelbel, both for BIS.