Bach on the harpsichord, lute-harpsichord, clavichord

Started by Que, April 14, 2007, 01:30:11 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

springrite

On the just completed business trip, I brought along Karl Richter's Goldberg Variation recording and finally Bach begin to sound good on the harpsichord. Now I have put a number of Bach harpsichord recordings in my shopping cart, various recordings by Egarr, Hill, Hantai, etc. This thread has been a major help for me in this regard. Thanks!
Do what I must do, and let what must happen happen.

kishnevi

Quote from: springrite on July 26, 2011, 08:28:47 AM
On the just completed business trip, I brought along Karl Richter's Goldberg Variation recording and finally Bach begin to sound good on the harpsichord. Now I have put a number of Bach harpsichord recordings in my shopping cart, various recordings by Egarr, Hill, Hantai, etc. This thread has been a major help for me in this regard. Thanks!

If it is not too late, delete Egarr from your cart and put on Staier.  Egarr's performance seems to provide proof of the old legend that Bach wrote the Variations as a cure for a listener's insomnia.
The only real virtue to his recording is that he includes the Canons.

milk


Reviewers I trust have been fairly critical of efforts to record the Goldbergs on the Organ. Donald Satz was less than impressed with an organ version by Bernard Lagacé and Kirk McElhearn went so far as to suggest (reviewing Käte van Trich) that "the music just does not work on this instrument." I've trusted these particular reviewers because I've found their recommendations and warnings to be right on the money. Thus,  I approached this recording with a bit of trepidation. However, this interpretation on organ by Gunther Rost really thrills me. One reviewer on amazon called it, disparagingly, "drunken Bach." But I'm just loving it. I wonder what others think.
I decided not to post this in the organ forum. That might be wrong. If so, I hope we can move this post.
 

SonicMan46

Quote from: milk on July 31, 2011, 06:54:04 AM

Reviewers I trust have been fairly critical of efforts to record the Goldbergs on the Organ. Donald Satz was less than impressed with an organ version by Bernard Lagacé and Kirk McElhearn went so far as to suggest (reviewing Käte van Trich) that "the music just does not work on this instrument." I've trusted these particular reviewers because I've found their recommendations and warnings to be right on the money. Thus,  I approached this recording with a bit of trepidation. However, this interpretation on organ by Gunther Rost really thrills me. One reviewer on amazon called it, disparagingly, "drunken Bach." But I'm just loving it. I wonder what others think.
I decided not to post this in the organ forum. That might be wrong. If so, I hope we can move this post.


Don Satz of course is our own 'Bulldog' - I read his review mentioned above and will be curious if he has heard this newer recording; on Amazon, Scott Morrison gave this only a 1* rating w/ many derogatory comments, somewhat unusual for him but obviously not his 'cup of tea' (and he is one of the few reviewers on Amazon that I do read positively).

I have a half dozen or so recordings of these works and on different instruments, including guitar, clavichord, harp, & woodwind ensemble, but I do not own an organ version - so will be interested in others' comments - :)

jlaurson

Quote from: SonicMan46 on July 31, 2011, 10:31:42 AM

I have a half dozen or so recordings of these works and on different instruments, including guitar, clavichord, harp, & woodwind ensemble, but I do not own an organ version - so will be interested in others' comments - :)

I gave it a couple of shots, but found it unconvincing without being bad.

Marc

Quote from: SonicMan46 on July 31, 2011, 10:31:42 AM
[....]
I have a half dozen or so recordings of these works and on different instruments, including guitar, clavichord, harp, & woodwind ensemble, but I do not own an organ version - so will be interested in others' comments - :)

Quote from: (: premont :) on June 28, 2011, 04:28:52 AM
I am tempted to recommend [....] the recording of the Goldberg variations by Elena Barshai on Brilliant Classics. There you will find a rewarding sense of fun in the music making.

Seconded.



http://www.amazon.com/Bach-Goldberg-Variations-Johann-Sebastian/dp/B001EQPD38/

Gunther Rost's version I do not know yet (?).

Bulldog

Quote from: milk on July 31, 2011, 06:54:04 AM

Reviewers I trust have been fairly critical of efforts to record the Goldbergs on the Organ. Donald Satz was less than impressed with an organ version by Bernard Lagacé and Kirk McElhearn went so far as to suggest (reviewing Käte van Trich) that "the music just does not work on this instrument." I've trusted these particular reviewers because I've found their recommendations and warnings to be right on the money. Thus,  I approached this recording with a bit of trepidation. However, this interpretation on organ by Gunther Rost really thrills me. One reviewer on amazon called it, disparagingly, "drunken Bach." But I'm just loving it. I wonder what others think.

I think of it as a mixed bag.  On the positive side, some of the pieces are a blast to listen to (23/27/29 and more) and I've never heard a more beautiful var. 21.  Unfortunately, Rost seems to have an addiction for screwing around with tempo; it's not just in the form of rhythmic hesitations but more the slowing down of an entire phrase.  This addiction is strongest in the first half of the performance, so I did prefer the second half.  Overall, I wouldn't mind having this recording, but it's not one I would seek out.

milk

Quote from: SonicMan46 on July 31, 2011, 10:31:42 AM
Don Satz of course is our own 'Bulldog' - I read his review mentioned above and will be curious if he has heard this newer recording; on Amazon, Scott Morrison gave this only a 1* rating w/ many derogatory comments, somewhat unusual for him but obviously not his 'cup of tea' (and he is one of the few reviewers on Amazon that I do read positively).

I have a half dozen or so recordings of these works and on different instruments, including guitar, clavichord, harp, & woodwind ensemble, but I do not own an organ version - so will be interested in others' comments - :)
What version do you have on clavichord? How is it? I came across a clavichord version on itunes by someone named Benjamin-Joseph Steens. I'd never heard of him before and the samples didn't entice me.

milk

Quote from: Bulldog on July 31, 2011, 01:13:29 PM
I think of it as a mixed bag.  On the positive side, some of the pieces are a blast to listen to (23/27/29 and more) and I've never heard a more beautiful var. 21.  Unfortunately, Rost seems to have an addiction for screwing around with tempo; it's not just in the form of rhythmic hesitations but more the slowing down of an entire phrase.  This addiction is strongest in the first half of the performance, so I did prefer the second half.  Overall, I wouldn't mind having this recording, but it's not one I would seek out.

Thanks for your comments.
Is there another organ version that you recommend? What about a version on clavichord? Incidentally, have you heard the Gamba sonatas by Markus Hunninger & Paolo Pandolfo? This is something else that's rather new that I'm enjoying.

Antoine Marchand

Quote from: milk on July 31, 2011, 01:49:58 PM
What version do you have on clavichord? How is it? I came across a clavichord version on itunes by someone named Benjamin-Joseph Steens. I'd never heard of him before and the samples didn't entice me.

Jaroslav Tůma.

It's a 2-CD set with two complete interpretations, both on clavichord (a "two-manual" clavichord, read the info below) and harpsichord.

http://www.youtube.com/v/v7IyetFoUkI
(This ClarkVega is a nice chap!  ;D)


Here you will find all the information that you need: http://www.arta.cz/index.php?p=f10136en&site=en

:)

SonicMan46

Quote from: milk on July 31, 2011, 01:49:58 PM
What version do you have on clavichord? How is it? I came across a clavichord version on itunes by someone named Benjamin-Joseph Steens. I'd never heard of him before and the samples didn't entice me.

Hi Milk - the performer shown on the disc below (left) is Jaroslav Tůma - actually a 2-CD package (in a 1-disc sized jewel box - love it!) - Goldbergs are played on the clavichord on 1 disc & on a harpsichord on the 2nd disc - cannot remember where I purchased this set but a great combo if the price is right!

Also, if you like the clavichord, I own the 4-CD set w/ the same performer doing the WTC, both books - Dave  :D

 

SonicMan46

Quote from: Bulldog on July 31, 2011, 01:13:29 PM
I think of it as a mixed bag.  On the positive side, some of the pieces are a blast to listen to (23/27/29 and more) and I've never heard a more beautiful var. 21.  Unfortunately, Rost seems to have an addiction for screwing around with tempo; it's not just in the form of rhythmic hesitations but more the slowing down of an entire phrase.  This addiction is strongest in the first half of the performance, so I did prefer the second half.  Overall, I wouldn't mind having this recording, but it's not one I would seek out.

Hi Don - I believe that a number of us are curious as to 'organ' versions of the Goldberg Variations - for myself, I'd like a 'smaller' and more intimate organ (and not an 'organ expert' -  ;) :D) - would appreciate any thoughts of those recordings that you know - thanks, as always - Dave  :)

Bulldog

Quote from: SonicMan46 on July 31, 2011, 03:00:19 PM
Hi Don - I believe that a number of us are curious as to 'organ' versions of the Goldberg Variations - for myself, I'd like a 'smaller' and more intimate organ (and not an 'organ expert' -  ;) :D) - would appreciate any thoughts of those recordings that you know - thanks, as always - Dave  :)

As far as I know, there aren't many organ versions to be had, and I haven't been very fond of the ones I've heard.  But there is an organ arrangement I very much like:

Wilhelm Middelschulte - Organ Works, Vol. 4
Goldberg Variations Arranged for Organ
MDG 777215 [2cds - 100:54]

This is a "heavy" performance, rather slow and every repeat is observed.  That's the opposite of the Rost recording; his thorough answer to how to handle the repeats is to delete them from the landscape.

Bulldog

Quote from: milk on July 31, 2011, 01:58:17 PM
Incidentally, have you heard the Gamba sonatas by Markus Hunninger & Paolo Pandolfo?

Yes I have as well as Pandolfo's first recording these works on Harmonia Mundi back in the 1990's.  I wasn't impressed then, and I can't say I'm impressed by the new recording.  My problem with Pandolofo is that I don't find his playing sufficiently powerful at times.  Basically, I just don't connect with him.

My favored recording is Quintana and Frisch on Harmonia Mundi.


milk

Quote from: Bulldog on July 31, 2011, 07:01:45 PM
Yes I have as well as Pandolfo's first recording these works on Harmonia Mundi back in the 1990's.  I wasn't impressed then, and I can't say I'm impressed by the new recording.  My problem with Pandolofo is that I don't find his playing sufficiently powerful at times.  Basically, I just don't connect with him.

My favored recording is Quintana and Frisch on Harmonia Mundi.

Thanks. I followed the advice in your comparative review and purchased the Quintana and Frisch version a while back. I wasn't disappointed. I also like the Crum version which I believe you recommended - with reservations. I probably own all the various Bach recordings you've recommended. As for Pandolfo, while I didn't enjoy his gamba version of the cello suites (I'm really in love with the Kuijken da spalla version - another recording to ask you about!), I do enjoy his new gamba sonatas. But I've read closely all your reservations in regards to the cello suites and gamba sonatas and avoided some recordings based on those observations. 
Incidentally, have you written any reviews recently? I'd like to know where to look in case you're publishing anything online. I've looked at the cantatas site countless times. I wish I could see more discussion between you, Bradley Lehman and Kirk McElhearn as well as more reviews. A few years ago I fell in love with Bach kind of out of the blue - I had no previous interest in classical music. I think all those discussions and reviews on the Cantata site encouraged me and facilitated my interest in this music. That's a valuable service to the music...not a small thing.       

milk

Quote from: toñito on July 31, 2011, 02:10:20 PM
Jaroslav Tůma.

It's a 2-CD set with two complete interpretations, both on clavichord (a "two-manual" clavichord, read the info below) and harpsichord.

http://www.youtube.com/v/v7IyetFoUkI
(This ClarkVega is a nice chap!  ;D)


Here you will find all the information that you need: http://www.arta.cz/index.php?p=f10136en&site=en

:)

Thanks. That's a great link. Now I must machinate over whether I need this!

milk

Quote from: SonicMan46 on July 31, 2011, 02:51:29 PM
Hi Milk - the performer shown on the disc below (left) is Jaroslav Tůma - actually a 2-CD package (in a 1-disc sized jewel box - love it!) - Goldbergs are played on the clavichord on 1 disc & on a harpsichord on the 2nd disc - cannot remember where I purchased this set but a great combo if the price is right!

Also, if you like the clavichord, I own the 4-CD set w/ the same performer doing the WTC, both books - Dave  :D

 

I had the Tuma WTC at one point and, for some reason, didn't fall in love with it. But maybe I should search for it and try again.
So, do you feel the this version really adds something to your life? Would you say this is a must-have (these questions are for Tonito also)? I do like the clavichord. 

SonicMan46

Quote from: milk on August 01, 2011, 04:07:40 AM
I had the Tuma WTC at one point and, for some reason, didn't fall in love with it. But maybe I should search for it and try again.
So, do you feel the this version really adds something to your life? Would you say this is a must-have (these questions are for Tonito also)? I do like the clavichord.

Well, I'm not sure that a 'clavichord' version of the Goldberg Variations is a 'must-have' in your life; of course, you must like the instrument which I do - listening to the disc as I type and enjoying; the instrument is well made & tuned and Tuma does play quite well.  I've just been a collector of these works performed in different ways and on various types of instruments - have always enjoyed 'transcriptions' (like to the guitar) of classical pieces, so do search them out; others may have the opposite feeling?  Good luck in your choice(s) - :)

Bulldog

Quote from: milk on August 01, 2011, 04:02:29 AM
Incidentally, have you written any reviews recently? I'd like to know where to look in case you're publishing anything online. I've looked at the cantatas site countless times. I wish I could see more discussion between you, Bradley Lehman and Kirk McElhearn as well as more reviews.

I haven't written any reviews in recent years.  When I retired, I thought I would be doing more reviews than ever.  However, the reviews became a chore for me so I stopped.  Maybe that will change, don't know.

milk

Quote from: Bulldog on August 01, 2011, 09:03:35 AM
I haven't written any reviews in recent years.  When I retired, I thought I would be doing more reviews than ever.  However, the reviews became a chore for me so I stopped.  Maybe that will change, don't know.
It's interesting that no one else has attempted anything like it (as far as I've found). Some day I'd like to see a comparison of recordings of Bach's harpsichord concertos.