Bach on the harpsichord, lute-harpsichord, clavichord

[Mandryka]

Skip Sempé playing 828.

What do you think of the hell for leather speed of the overture? For me, what's interests me most in Partita 4 right now is the counterpoint, especially in the allemande .  And from that point of view I find Sempe and Ross a bit unrevealing, compared with Gilbert and Leonhardt and Mortensen, especially Gilbert.

I am probably a bit chauvinistic, but I find Mortensens Bach partitas as mandatory as Leonhardt´s.

Which Leonhardt -- DHM or Virgin or both or neither?

Well, I'm not sure if this doesn't belong in the Bach thread but today I listened to Mortensen's partitas and quite enjoyed them.
For a long time I couldn't find any performance of the partitas that I could get into as much as Leonhardt's and Suzuki's. But I quite admire
Mortensen's set. His performance of the 6th partita really got me. It's quite an adventure. For some reason, I haven't been able to get into Pinnock
or Rousset so much but the fault may be my own. Anyway, having been able to hear a couple of tracks from Ross I'm intrigued. I had never heard of Puyana
until reading this thread today. I wonder if that's something I need to look into.

There's a a couple opf early recording from Puyana  which I think are very good -- full of joyful music making. Some of the later stuff seems less inspired. He's a Landowska pupil I think, so he relishes unexpected registration changes sometimes. He is a bravura musician really -- not really contemplative.  If you can enjoy inauthentic performances then I think they're good fun.  These:



This LP too -- I can let you have an upload if you're curious


For me, by the way, Suzuki's partitas  is a complete closed book. Can someone say what it is they're hearing that makes that set special playing. Then I can listen out for it .

[prémont]

Are you also enamored with Ross's partitas?

Yes, but not quite to the same degree as the others I mentioned : Leonhardt, Suzuki, Mortensen and Belder.

I recently acquired a recording of
Skip Sempé playing 828. I know the field is crowded, but I wonder why he's never recorded a complete
Bach set.

It´s a long time since I listened to this. As far as I remember, the most interesting part of the disc is Sempé´s arrangement of the chaconne from the violin partita no.2.

[milk]

What do you think of the hell for leather speed of the overture? For me, what's interests me most in Partita 4 right now is the counterpoint, especially in the allemande .  And from that point of view I find Sempe and Ross a bit unrevealing, compared with Gilbert and Leonhardt and Mortensen, especially Gilbert.

Which Leonhardt -- DHM or Virgin or both or neither?

For me, by the way, Suzuki's partitas  is a complete closed book. Can someone say what it is they're hearing that makes that set special playing. Then I can listen out for it .

Hmm...The Gilbert recording looks difficult to find for a reasonable price. I didn't realize there are two Leonhardt partita recordings. I've got the Virgin one.
Is the DHM one an earlier recording? How do they compare?

[milk]

For me, by the way, Suzuki's partitas  is a complete closed book. Can someone say what it is they're hearing that makes that set special playing. Then I can listen out for it .
[/quote]
I'm hoping Premont might take a stab at this!

[milk]

Yes, but not quite to the same degree as the others I mentioned : Leonhardt, Suzuli, Mortensen and Belder.
It´s a long time since I listened to this. As far as I remember, the most interesting part of the disc is Sempé´s arrangement of the chaconne from the violin partita no.2.

Do you also rate Belder's WTC highly? Not that I need another one but I was expecting a lot from Christine Schornsheim's new set and was disappointed. So
I'm thinking I might need another one.

[Antoine Marchand]

OK, a modification: Not the most important, but an important guiding principle.

I have no problems with either of Verlets recordings of the partitas, but I know that some consider her second set wilfull and excentric. So I think one has to be cautious as to the the recommendation of this set.

Yes, this was a recommendation for a third o fourth set; not a recommendation for a first approach to this set of suites. So, some variety could be interesting.

I don't think Verlet is eccentric at all. Eccentric suppose a dose of arbitrary and capricious behavior and she is not that kind of performer. She is very personal; some time I said that she plays this music as if it were her intimate diary: turbulent, feminine and highly expressive. Anyway, I speak about her Naïve set because I don't particularly like her first recording on Philips.

Concerning Debreuil contra Belder I think their interpretations are of the same kind (compared to f.i. Leonhardt and Suzuk)i. And even if I like Dubruil´s take, I much prefer Belders.

Well, I also like Belder, but I prefer Dubreuil here (not very widely, anyway). IMO he is more expressive and does more justice to the rhetorical aspects of these dances. Certainly Belder is a bit more "German" in style, but I like the more sunny and light and expressive touch of Dubreuil. Curiously in the second part of the Clavier-Übung, I prefer Belder over Dubreuil which is not probably surprising because Belder plays my favorite Italian Concerto.

[prémont]

Which Leonhardt -- DHM or Virgin or both or neither?

In principle both, but I tend to prefer the more expressive DHM version to the more straight EMI (Virgin) version.

There's a a couple of early recording from Puyana  which I think are very good -- full of joyful music making. Some of the later stuff seems less inspired. He's a Landowska pupil I think, so he relishes unexpected registration changes sometimes. He is a bravura musician really -- not really contemplative.  If you can enjoy inauthentic performances then I think they're good fun.

Precisely my impression of Puyana too - though I do not know his French ouverture from Clavierübung II.

For me, by the way, Suzuki's partitas  is a complete closed book. Can someone say what it is they're hearing that makes that set special playing. Then I can listen out for it .

Well, Suzuki is not always easily accessible - to me he was an acquired taste. He often seems a bit academic, and I think the spirirt of the music sometimes eludes him (his Clavierübung III and his CD with organ works of Sweelinck being good examples of this), but his interpretation of the partitas is (other than being very informed) IMO loaded with energy and filled with passion.

[prémont]

Do you also rate Belder's WTC highly? Not that I need another one but I was expecting a lot from Christine Schornsheim's new set and was disappointed. So
I'm thinking I might need another one.

I have not yet listened enough to it to say much about it,-  maybe surprising, but my CDs-to-be-listened-to pile is very huge.

I expect to receive C Schornheims version next week, and this will not make the pile smaller.

[prémont]

I don't think Verlet is eccentric at all. Eccentric suppose a dose of arbitrary and capricious behavior and she is not that kind of performer. She is very personal; some time I said that she plays this music as if it were her intimate diary: turbulent, feminine and highly expressive.

Different words, but I hardly see the difference in the actual contents.

Certainly Belder is a bit more "German" in style, but I like the more sunny and light and expressive touch of Dubreuil. Curiously in the second part of the Clavier-Übung, I prefer Belder over Dubreuil which is not probably surprising because Belder plays my favorite Italian Concerto.

And this is why I prefer him, and in addition I find him eqally expressive.

[milk]

I have not yet listened enough to it to say much about it,-  maybe surprising, but my CDs-to-be-listened-to pile is very huge.

I expect to receive C Schornheims version next week, and this will not make the pile smaller.

Please comment on it when you have a chance. My reaction to it hasn't been good but maybe I need to try again.

[milk]

Well, Suzuki is not always easily accessible - to me he was an acquired taste. He often seems a bit academic, and I think the spirirt of the music sometimes eludes him (his Clavierübung III and his CD with organ works of Sweelinck being good examples of this), but his interpretation of the partitas is (other than being very informed) IMO loaded with energy and filled with passion.
[/quote]
I feel this way about Suzuki's partitas. Also, his ornamentations are imaginative. But I'm really in love with Mortenen now. This is what
a great performance does for me: it draws me into the music again - almost as if I'm hearing it for the first time. It opens up new avenues
of experience.   

[Geo Dude]

Does anyone who has heard Schornsheim's WTC have positive thoughts on it?  I'm beginning to wonder if I should cancel my pre-order.

[jlaurson]

Does anyone who has heard Schornsheim's WTC have positive thoughts on it?  I'm beginning to wonder if I should cancel my pre-order.

great instrument, very good sound... does "nothing offputting" count as something positive. i like it; i'm not wowed by it.

[Geo Dude]

great instrument, very good sound... does "nothing offputting" count as something positive. i like it; i'm not wowed by it.

Fair enough.  Does it seem like a grower to you or will it continue to be in the 'just good' range?

[Antoine Marchand]

Different words, but I hardly see the difference in the actual contents.

Then maybe I am just doing a "rhetorical" comment. But, as Bruce Haynes, I think that when you say something differently, you are saying something different. I see many differences between my adjectives and "eccentric", even without to mention the negative accent of the latter. I would say the same when Dubreuil is defined as simply "easygoing". That said, I don't have any problem at all, if someone defines those performances in those terms, but I easily see the difference in the contents.   

And this is why I prefer him, and in addition I find him eqally expressive.

I think Dubreuil does a better characterization of the affekten of these pieces.

[prémont]

.. as Bruce Haynes [say], I think that when you say something differently, you are saying something different.

Unless you say the same with other words.

I see many differences between my adjectives and "eccentric", even without to mention the negative accent of the latter.

"Eccentric" does not necessarily imply anything negative. It may just mean "something very individual". And I think Verlets second take of the partitas is too individual to be recommended as third or fourth choice, because only a few collectors collect as many recordings of the same works, as you and I.

I think Dubreuil does a better characterization of the affekten of these pieces.

I must find the time for a relisten.

[prémont]

However I just listened to a new acquisation, Anneke Uittenbosch´s WTC book.II (she does not seem to have recorded book I).

She is a pupil of Gustav Leonhardt and plays much in his style, but her sense of rhethorics is more pronounced with more rhythmic rubato - not as much as Pierre Hantaï though, and her playing is less tense than Leonhardt´s, more like Pieter-Jan Belder´s. Her playing is extremely clean and well articulated - up the highest standard. She plays a harpsichord by Joel Katzman after Parisian 17th century examples, actually the same kind of instrument Richard Egarr uses for his Louis Couperin set, but the tuning is different. Funny enough,already in the first Bach prelude i C major I had a feeling of an instrument out of tune (this was short time after listening to Egarr). Then I read in the booklet (the text is probably by Uittenbosch herself) that equal tuning was essential for Bach when composing the WTC, so what I heard was equal tuning.   

[Leo K.]

However I just listened to a new acquisation, Anneke Uittenbosch´s WTC book.II (she does not seem to have recorded book I).

She is a pupil of Gustav Leonhardt and plays much in his style, but her sense of rhethorics is more pronounced with more rhythmic rubato - not as much as Pierre Hantaï though, and her playing is less tense than Leonhardt´s, more like Pieter-Jan Belder´s. Her playing is extremely clean and well articulated - up the highest standard. She plays a harpsichord by Joel Katzman after Parisian 17th century examples, actually the same kind of instrument Richard Egarr uses for his Louis Couperin set, but the tuning is different. Funny enough,already in the first Bach prelude i C major I had a feeling of an instrument out of tune (this was short time after listening to Egarr). Then I read in the booklet (the text is probably by Uittenbosch herself) that equal tuning was essential for Bach when composing the WTC, so what I heard was equal tuning.

Thank you for your review. I am very interested in hearing a Joel Katzman instrument with equal tuning in contrast to Egarr's recordings.

[milk]

What do you think of the hell for leather speed of the overture? For me, what's interests me most in Partita 4 right now is the counterpoint, especially in the allemande .  And from that point of view I find Sempe and Ross a bit unrevealing, compared with Gilbert and Leonhardt and Mortensen, especially Gilbert.

Yeah, you're right of course. The Sempe is fun but not nearly as revealing as Mortensen. I guess this was early on for Sempe. I really wonder what Sempe would do now
with the partitas. He's never done a complete set of any Bach as far as I know. It must be hard though, with so many musicians taking their best shots at the Goldbergs, Partitas, WTC, and French and English Suites. Is it restraint? I guess commendation is due to musicians that try to take the path less trodden. However, I can't imagine being a performer on that level and not wanting to record the best music ever written!
Ok, I'm going to stop fixating on Sempe. Gee, I wish I could locate that Gilbert recording.
I'm getting the sense that it'll be more worthwhile than the Ross.   

[Leo K.]

I finally got Leonhardt's DHM account of the Partitas, and indeed, it is as great as folks here have said. I love this board!