Bach on the harpsichord, lute-harpsichord, clavichord

[milk]

Yesterday I listened to some of the partitas played by Pascal Dubreuil. They are generally well played, but a bit slow for my taste. I own the version of Leonhardt (Virgin) and Scott Ross, both of which I prefer over Dubreuil. Although both are quite different. WIth Leonhardt everything seems just right, whereas Scott Ross is more forceful, masculine, I would say.

Anyway, what caught my attention about the CD by Dubreuil is the booklet. It contains a letter from an anonymous Frenchman who attended a concert at Cafe Zimmermann. I never heard of the existence of this letter. But it describes how Bach first plays one of the partitas and then some of the harpsichord concertos (with an orchestra of one to a part) with his sons. He also writes that Bach used unequal temperament, unlike the French.

This seems a rather important eyewitness account, but I was wondering if it is real, since a) it confirms all our prejudices and b) I can't find any other reference to it. Does anyone no more about this letter?

Christoph Wolff, in his book on Bach, dug pretty deep into archives. Still, he often has to rely on inference and educated conjecture in order to create a plausible image of this part of Bach's life. There is no mention of any letter containing a firsthand report of Bach's performances. But there are some announcements in the archives from which Wolff pieces together sparse information.
For instance, Bach played from 8-10pm at the coffee house on Fridays in the winter and 4-6pm on Wednesdays in the summer. Additionally, Bach played on Tuesday and Fridays, 8-10pm, during certain fairs (if I'm reading this information correctly). But Wolff admits that, "it is impossible to reconstruct, even in the broadest outlines, any of the more than five hundred 2-hour programs for which Bach was responsible." Still, Wolff is reasonably sure about some of the material for the "ordinaire concerten," for example BWV 211 and 201, as well as Bach's concertos and much of his solo harpsichord output. Generally, the details are rather vague.
I'm skeptical of this letter. It would be a revelation to have it. 
         

[JaapT]

Christoph Wolff, in his book on Bach, dug pretty deep into archives. Still, he often has to rely on inference and educated conjecture in order to create a plausible image of this part of Bach's life. There is no mention of any letter containing a firsthand report of Bach's performances. But there are some announcements in the archives from which Wolff pieces together sparse information.
For instance, Bach played from 8-10pm at the coffee house on Fridays in the winter and 4-6pm on Wednesdays in the summer. Additionally, Bach played on Tuesday and Fridays, 8-10pm, during certain fairs (if I'm reading this information correctly). But Wolff admits that, "it is impossible to reconstruct, even in the broadest outlines, any of the more than five hundred 2-hour programs for which Bach was responsible." Still, Wolff is reasonably sure about some of the material for the "ordinaire concerten," for example BWV 211 and 201, as well as Bach's concertos and much of his solo harpsichord output. Generally, the details are rather vague.
I'm skeptical of this letter. It would be a revelation to have it. 
         

I agree. The letter seems too good to be true. But where did Pascal Dubreuil get this from (he wrote the CD booklet himself), or did he make it up himself?

[milk]

Well, I found it in French. I used computer translation to get the gist of it but I'm sure the French speakers on the forum can comment. I'm a little skeptical of this. Something doesn't seem right about it. But what do I know? I'm curious what the more knowledgeable folks here think of it:

Ci-dessous, le témoignage d'un touriste français de passage à Leipzig en 1731 dans lequel il évoque la publication des six partitas pour clavier. Pour accompagner la lecture, le prélude de la première partita remarquablement interprétée par Pascal Dubreuil :



« Le second évènement dont je souhaitais vous entretenir s'est passé le troisième jour après notre arrivée à  Leipzig. Selon l'habitude prise depuis quelques mois, le grand Johann Sébastian Bach, compositeur de Musique de l'Eglise Saint Thomas, venait chez Zimmermann, endroit fort agréable où on peut boire du chocolat et du café, et rendez-vous de toutes les personnes de qualité de la Ville, afin de s'y faire entendre pour la réjouissance des amateurs de musique de cette Ville.

A ce que l'on dit ici, cette habitude est nouvelle : cela ne fait pas longtemps que l'on peut entendre de la si bonne musique tous les Vendredis dans cet endroit.

La salle de la rue Catherine est assez petite, quoiqu'elle permette d'y placer un orchestre complet, fourni, il est vrai, d'un seul joueur pour les différentes parties. Les gens étaient fort nombreux mais, grâce à  notre ami de Leipzig, nous avons pu trouver une table, point trop loin du Clavecin. Notre ami nous a même présentés à  Monsieur Gottfried : c'est ainsi que les habitués appellent le Maître des lieux.

A 8 heures le soir, le grand Bach est entré, accompagné d'autres joueurs d'instruments, dont certains semblaient fort jeunes. Notre ami nous dit alors qu'il s'agissait de ses fils, Friedemann & Emanuel.


L'ancien Maître de Chapelle du Prince de Cothen a fait, fort vite il est vrai, un accord du Clavecin, selon la méthode Allemande : celle-ci n'est point tout à  fait de notre goût ; les tons de la tierce en sont trop loin de la bonne et pure égalité, et il en résulte un je ne sais quoi de criard et de dur, pour nos oreilles habituées à  la bonne manière de l'accordage Français.

Une fois l'accord achevé, il a préludé, fort bien, certes dans une manière plus contrainte que ne le font à Paris nos joueurs de Clavecin, mais qui a bien plu à Monsieur votre Epoux ainsi qu'à  Mademoiselle votre Fille.


C'est alors qu'il a fort plaisamment prévenu qu'il souhaitait jouer, pour le plus grand plaisir des amateurs présents, la dernière de ses Pièces de Clavecin, laquelle était juste gravée, ainsi que cinq autres, dans le même Livre qu'il venait de donner au public (...) Je crois fort sincèrement que je n'ai guère entendu, dans nos salons, une telle grandeur, et une telle force dans l'éloquence, non plus qu'un tel génie, dans le toucher du Clavecin.


Son art m'a transporté, à  de certains moments, je me pouvais persuader d'être en notre Chapelle de Versailles, lors des Grands Offices auxquels le feu Roy Louis assistait, tant ce Monsieur Bach savait mettre en sa musique et en son Clavessin toute l'âme de la grande Eloquence et les plus subtiles figures de nos plus brillants orateurs. On dit aussi qu'il joue fort bien sur l'orgue.

Accompagné de ses fils & d'autres joueurs d'instruments, Il a ensuite donné à entendre quelques-uns de ses Concertos pour un et deux Clavecins (...) ».


Pour écouter des extraits de l'album de Pascal Dubreuil

http://epicurienhedoniste.blogspot.jp/2012/07/blog-post_1518.html

[kishnevi]

I am dubious of this letter.

1) Egarr, in explaining his adherence to the system he uses in his Bach recordings, makes absolutely no mention of such a letter, which explicitly contradicts his position as to the temperment Bach used.

2)I don't think a French visitor would refer to Bach as "le grand" (what sort of reputation did Bach have among the French? Did they even know he existed?),   nor to his connection to Cothen.  He might have referred to his status vis a vis the King of Saxony (when did that particular royalty acknowledge his existence) or his role as director of some of the town music, or his post as Thomaskantor...but not to his old job with a minor prince.

[Leo K.]

After studying many recording of the Well-Tempered I & II on harpsichord, I think Kenneth Gilbert's Archiv is my favorite. The pace, the sound, wow, everything feels so right.

I still have not acquired Leonhardt's WTC set, which I'm eager to get soon!

[Opus106]

Does anyone know if both books are included in this set? If it's the whole thing, I'd appreciate your thoughts on the recordings, if you have listened to it.

[asin]B0000007JW[/asin]

(no 'official' cover picture available at Amazon)
Davitt Moroney
Well-Tempered Clavier
Harmonia Mundi

[Mandryka]

I am dubious of this letter.

1) Egarr, in explaining his adherence to the system he uses in his Bach recordings, makes absolutely no mention of such a letter, which explicitly contradicts his position as to the temperment Bach used.

2)I don't think a French visitor would refer to Bach as "le grand" (what sort of reputation did Bach have among the French? Did they even know he existed?),   nor to his connection to Cothen.  He might have referred to his status vis a vis the King of Saxony (when did that particular royalty acknowledge his existence) or his role as director of some of the town music, or his post as Thomaskantor...but not to his old job with a minor prince.

Yes. And the letter isn't published in The New Bach Reader (Norton) as far as I can see, and there's no reply to the request by Michèle Lhopiteau-Dorfeuille for more details about the origin of the letter on the blog.

[milk]

New one!
[asin]B00FA312N6[/asin]

[Que]

Does anyone know if both books are included in this set? If it's the whole thing, I'd appreciate your thoughts on the recordings, if you have listened to it.



(no 'official' cover picture available at Amazon)
Davitt Moroney
Well-Tempered Clavier
Harmonia Mundi

I remember this as being a sample disc. At the time I was a novice in these matters it did strike me as being emotionally dry and academic, rather introverted, not quite idiomatic.

But since then I've become quite a fan of Moroney in other repertoire (L. Couperin, Byrd) and I'd love to hear his WTC again!

Q

[Opus106]

I remember this as being a sample disc. At the time I was a novice in these matters it did strike me as being emotionally dry and academic, rather introverted, not quite idiomatic.

But since then I've become quite a fan of Moroney in other repertoire (L. Couperin, Byrd) and I'd love to hear his WTC again!

Q

Thanks for the thoughts, Que. I think it was Premont, in another thread (possibly the one on the WTK), who confirmed that it was a set of selections rather than the whole shebang. And yes, HM should re-release his discs.

In the meanwhile, I bought my first Moroney disc a couple of weeks ago which include selections from a compendium compiled by a cousin of F. Couperin; yet to listen to it, though.

[Mandryka]

Thanks for the thoughts, Que. I think it was Premont, in another thread (possibly the one on the WTK), who confirmed that it was a set of selections rather than the whole shebang. And yes, HM should re-release his discs.

In the meanwhile, I bought my first Moroney disc a couple of weeks ago which include selections from a compendium compiled by a cousin of F. Couperin; yet to listen to it, though.

In solo Bach, he's worth catching in Art of Fugue (both recordings) and The French Suites. WTC  maybe slightly less so. Away from Bach, I have his Froberger CD, I need to relisten, It's potentially very interesting as it's an organ recital. And The Byrd has peaks (Pavans and Galliards) and some troughs too ( would anyone prefer the way he plays the fantasias to Wilson or Belder?) I haven't heard anything else, I'd be quite curious to know of you like his F Couperin.

[Opus106]

Thanks for you recommendations.

I haven't heard anything else, I'd be quite curious to know of you like his F Couperin.

Not François, but his cousin. And in most cases, the pieces are simply arrangement of other composers' works.

http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDA67164&vw=dc

[Wakefield]

New one!
[asin]B00FA312N6[/asin]

Great! Peter Watchorn is slowly fulfilling his project of recording the complete harpsichord music by Bach. I'm delighted. 

[Mandryka]

Thanks for you recommendations.

Not François, but his cousin. And in most cases, the pieces are simply arrangement of other composers' works.
E trios.
http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDA67164&vw=dc

Ah, I was wondering what you meant by "cousin"! He has recorded some Couperiin le grand I think, though I'm not sure how much. I will investigate.

By the way, his recording of opfer is very fine too.

Oh, does anyone know how I can get to hear Kenneth Gilbert's French Suites? Short of paying a lot of money (that's code for "could someone upload it for me, please?")

[PaulSC]

Great! Peter Watchorn is slowly fulfilling his project of recording the complete harpsichord music by Bach. I'm delighted. 

Slowly indeed; I believe this will be the first traversal of the partitas to span three CDs. (Am I delighted? I'm intrigued, at least. So far I've enjoyed his WTC more than his suites.)

[Wakefield]

Slowly indeed; I believe this will be the first traversal of the partitas to span three CDs. (Am I delighted? I'm intrigued, at least. So far I've enjoyed his WTC more than his suites.)

Obviously, I haven't listened to this new set, but I don't believe the extra disc will be a thing of slowness. Watchorn has never been a keyboardist excessively on the slow side. But he usually has some idiosyncratic ideas in matter of additional movements, repeats and alternative versions. I would say this will be the case here.

And yes, I'm delighted because he is going to form a very solid integral of the harpsichord music by Bach. Naturally, I'm not waiting for a new number one in every new collection recorded by him.

BTW, I liked very much his French Suites, but a bit less his old English Suites.

[PaulSC]

I find that Watchorn often does lean rather far to the proverbial slow side in the French Suites -- not by pushing the slow tempi to extremes, but by moderating the fast ones so much that they feel held back. As a result, a certain liveliness is missing from many of his courantes and gigues. I do appreciate the decorations he often adds to repeats in the courantes, and maybe his tempo choices facilitate these, but they also lend a gravity to the music that I don't always welcome.

I'll spend more time with his French Suites. Maybe they'll grow on me.

[Wakefield]

I find that Watchorn often does lean rather far to the proverbial slow side in the French Suites -- not by pushing the slow tempi to extremes, but by moderating the fast ones so much that they feel held back. As a result, a certain liveliness is missing from many of his courantes and gigues. I do appreciate the decorations he often adds to repeats in the courantes, and maybe his tempo choices facilitate these, but they also lend a gravity to the music that I don't always welcome.

I think your description is quite accurate. I haven't done a comparison, but probably a comparison between slow dances and fast dances would reveal a ratio of tempi quite shorter than in many modern recordings. But I like this because I find Watchorn tends to distinguish more between rhetorically-charged/intense movements and meditative/more-relaxed movements than simply between fast & slow.   

[milk]

Slowly indeed; I believe this will be the first traversal of the partitas to span three CDs. (Am I delighted? I'm intrigued, at least. So far I've enjoyed his WTC more than his suites.)

I've grown to love his WTC but his FS never grew on me. I also wonder if I should go back to them. My impression was that the dances were lacking liveliness and light-heartedness. But perhaps I'd form a different impression these days. My favorite FS recording is Van Asperen.
I have a feeling that the partitas play more to Watchorn's strengths.

[milk]

So far I'm having a hard time with this. It just doesn't seem to have the vitality, propulsive force, or the intensity that Suzuki, Mortensen, Ross or Leonhardt have. The searching quality works wonders on WTC. But it seems like he takes the same tack with the partitas. Now, it may be that I just need to open my mind a bit to what he's doing. One thing I did was pitted his rondeau in 826 against that of the four recordings I mentioned above. Watchorn just doesn't seem to move forward. But I don't want to be the only opinion on this since there aren't reviews out yet - so maybe someone else might give this set a try and tell us what they think (or sample it a bit if they can find samples somewhere). 
[asin]B00FA312N6[/asin]