Your favorite (or not so favorite) musical mispronunciations

[GanChan]

I hear a lot of howlers from people who should know better, such as classical DJs. Two common examples that spring to mind are "PlacEEdo Domingo" (which makes the guy sound like a sugar pill) and "Herbert von Carry-on" (which sounds like the maestro has introduced his own line of luggage).

[mc ukrneal]

Names often do not translate well in the pronunciation of other languages. Sometimes the sounds do not even exist in other languages. Or those sounds, in other languages, are made differently. So some of those 'mistakes' are not really mistakes.

[Jo498]

The puns with "Bach in one hour" or so I have seen on covers only work with the anglophone mispronunciation.

[Biffo]

Don Gee-oh-varny

[JBS]

I hear a lot of howlers from people who should know better, such as classical DJs. Two common examples that spring to mind are "PlacEEdo Domingo" (which makes the guy sound like a sugar pill) and "Herbert von Carry-on" (which sounds like the maestro has introduced his own line of luggage).

You must admit that if any conductor would have had his own line of designer luggage, it would have been Karajan.

[SimonNZ]

A Russian-speaking friend would tell me off for not making a throat-hawking sound for the first letter of Khachaturian.

[Ghost of Baron Scarpia]

The puns with "Bach in one hour" or so I have seen on covers only work with the anglophone mispronunciation.

It seems to me that pun works well enough even with a correct pronunciation of Bach.

I also agree with mc ukrneal. I haven't listened to classical radio for a while, but I was mostly put off by pretentious DJs who would make a big show of pronouncing foreign names "correctly." It seems to me you should render names as accurately as possible using the sounds available in the language you are speaking. For instance if I say "Johannes Brahms" I will use the German 'J' sound (as though it were Yohannes) but not the gutteral 'R' sound (even though I can) because it is not part of the English language. I follow the same convention with my own name, which should have a rolled r were I to pronounce it "correctly."

[JBS]

A Russian-speaking friend would tell me off for not making a throat-hawking sound for the first letter of Khachaturian.

Wikipedia

Aram Il'yich Khachaturian (/ˈærəm ˌkɑːtʃəˈtʊəriən/;[1] Russian: Ара́м Ильи́ч Хачатуря́н, IPA: [ɐˈram ɪˈlʲjit͡ɕ xət͡ɕɪtʊˈrʲan]; Armenian: Արամ Խաչատրյան, Aram Xačatryan;[A] pronounced [ɑˈɾɑm χɑt͡ʃʰɑt(ə)ɾˈjɑn]

The IPA Armenian key provided by Wiki says "similar to Scottish loch"

[SimonNZ]

Wikipedia
The IPA Armenian key provided by Wiki says "similar to Scottish loch"

That's a bit of a throat-hawk thing as well, isn't it? Even though I usually say "lock" (and "bark" for Bach).

[SimonNZ]

There's a thing I do in knowingly mispronouncing composers names etc: I say them with an English accent. Saying them correctly often requires briefly adopting the accent and always sounds affected, and as a classical music fan am already battling the image others have that I, and we, are snobs.

[Ken B]

There's a thing I do in knowingly mispronouncing composers names etc: I say them with an English accent. Saying them correctly often requires briefly adopting the accent and always sounds affected, and as a classical music fan am already battling the image others have that I, and we, are snobs.

In olden days I could spot the wankers from the way they said Nicaragua: nee ha RA and then some failed attempt at a throat-clearing sound ending in wa. There is much to be said for accepting that one cannot pronounce some languages as natives would.

[JBS]

That's a bit of a throat-hawk thing as well, isn't it? Even though I usually say "lock" (and "bark" for Bach).

It's less of a problem if you're Jewish, since that sound is the one used to pronounce the letters chet and chof (in ancient Hebrew they sounded slightly different): l'CHaim, CHanukah for chet. For Anglophones, chof is mostly encountered in the names of some prophets (MiC(H)ah, ZeCHariah ).   English usage often reduces the CH to an H, as often seen with Hanukah...but also the prophets Nahum and Haggai: the Hebrew names are Nachum and Chagai.

Learning elementary German I was taught the pronoun ich was to said using...you guessed it...the sound "found in Scottish loch".

[JBS]

In olden days I could spot the wankers from the way they said Nicaragua: nee ha RA and then some failed attempt at a throat-clearing sound ending in wa. There is much to be said for accepting that one cannot pronounce some languages as natives would.

The Nicaraguans I know all say it the Anglo way: Nicaragua

[Jo498]

It's less of a problem if you're Jewish, since that sound is the one used to pronounce the letters chet and chof (in ancient Hebrew they sounded slightly different): l'CHaim, CHanukah for chet. For Anglophones, chof is mostly encountered in the names of some prophets (MiC(H)ah, ZeCHariah ).   English usage often reduces the CH to an H, as often seen with Hanukah...but also the prophets Nahum and Haggai: the Hebrew names are Nachum and Chagai.

Learning elementary German I was taught the pronoun ich was to said using...you guessed it...the sound "found in Scottish loch".

Which is close but not quite correct. There are two versions of the "ch" in German. The one in Bach is basically the same as in Scottish "loch". It is not quite guttural but at the back of the mouth (velar or whatever) and with the tongue somewhat retracted. And I think the Hebrew in L'Chaim etc. is again almost the same as well as the Russian sound represented by an "x" in Kyrillic (and the Greek chi/x is also similar although it apparently became ever softer and is maybe closer to the "ich" sound nowadays).
Whereas the "ich" sound is palatal produced between the tongue and the hard palate closer to the front teeth and much "softer". This softer variant goes with i, e, ä, ü, the harder varianter with the darker vowels and the ch-sound is produced further back in the mouth the darker the vowel

Admittedly, there are regional German dialects that only have the harder (Bach) sound for both and other that soften the softer "ich" sound to a soft "sh" (which would be a "sch", like in Schumann). In such dialects "Kirche" (church) and "Kirsche" (cherry) would sound the same. But the "ach"-Sound would not soften.

Maybe with the exception of the r sounds the "ach/ich" is probably the hardest thing in German pronunciation. Fortunately it is very unlikely to produce any misunderstandings because, as I said, they are not even fully distinguished among all regional dialects. In "high" TV/Stage German it is a clear distinction, though.

[Florestan]

Which is close but not quite correct. There are two versions of the "ch" in German. The one in Bach is basically the same as in Scottish "loch". It is not quite guttural but at the back of the mouth (velar or whatever) and with the tongue somewhat retracted. And I think the Hebrew in L'Chaim etc. is again almost the same as well as the Russian sound represented by an "x" in Kyrillic (and the Greek chi/x is also similar although it apparently became ever softer and is maybe closer to the "ich" sound nowadays).
Whereas the "ich" sound is palatal produced between the tongue and the hard palate closer to the front teeth and much "softer". This softer variant goes with i, e, ä, ü, the harder varianter with the darker vowels and the ch-sound is produced further back in the mouth the darker the vowel

Admittedly, there are regional German dialects that only have the harder (Bach) sound for both and other that soften the softer "ich" sound to a soft "sh" (which would be a "sch", like in Schumann). In such dialects "Kirche" (church) and "Kirsche" (cherry) would sound the same. But the "ach"-Sound would not soften.

Maybe with the exception of the r sounds the "ach/ich" is probably the hardest thing in German pronunciation. Fortunately it is very unlikely to produce any misunderstandings because, as I said, they are not even fully distinguished among all regional dialects. In "high" TV/Stage German it is a clear distinction, though.

Is the g in Ludwig pronounced the same as the ch in Ich? So I heard but I want it confirmed --- or not --- from the most authoritative sources.

[Florestan]

Names often do not translate well in the pronunciation of other languages. Sometimes the sounds do not even exist in other languages. Or those sounds, in other languages, are made differently. So some of those 'mistakes' are not really mistakes.

This. How do you guys pronounce Celibidache?

[vandermolen]

My wife, when we were first going out, said that she really enjoyed the music of 'Sibonius'.

However:

When I first started to enjoy the music of Vaughan Williams as a teenager I pronounced the work 'Job: A Masque for Dancing' to rhyme with 'Bob'.

My older brother once, in my youth, asked me how I thought 'Eugen' as in Eugen Jochum was pronounced. I got this right, as he thought I would, as I had recently watched the film 'Sink the Bismarck' where the German battleship is accompanied on her first (and last) voyage by the 'Prinz Eugen'.

[SimonNZ]

It still feels wrong to be pronouncing Ralph as "Rayf".

[vandermolen]

It still feels wrong to be pronouncing Ralph as "Rayf".

Good point!

[Jo498]

Is the g in Ludwig pronounced the same as the ch in Ich? So I heard but I want it confirmed --- or not --- from the most authoritative sources.

This is again somewhat difficult. There are two options. One is basically "Ludvik" with hardened g. The other is with the "ich"-sound. Again, these are slight regional differences (southern Germans would tend to the harder sound, e.g. there in Bavarian you have "Wiggerl" as short form of Ludwig) and I am unsure because it is a proper name. The official "stage German" would have the "ich"-sound. But one has to watch out (and this is again a subtle difficulty) that as soon as the "-ig" is not at the end of a word, the g hardens. E.g. "König" (king) is "Könich". But the plural "Könige" has the normal hard g. (But not the "overhardened "k" sound the g at the end turns to in words like "Tag" (day)).
So, there are some subtleties in German pronunciation I am barely aware of even as a native and they will often be different locally within German speaking countries. (If one turns to dialects the "g" can become as soft as a "y" sound, e.g "gut" is prononounced as "yoot" in the Berlin region) Again, they will usually be markers of an accent but not lead to misunderstandings.