Putting Away Childish Things

Started by hopefullytrusting, January 24, 2025, 05:47:47 AM

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Florestan

Quote from: Karl Henning on January 25, 2025, 07:21:46 AMIt's really not fair to lay that at Beethoven's feet. An idea is not responsible for the people who believe in it.

I know --- and you're right, Beethoven himself was much more ambivalent than his aesthetic and philosophical interpreters. Yet, ultimately, it all started with, or rather from, his music.

Hot and long topic, let's leave it at that.  :laugh:
"Great music is that which penetrates the ear with facility and leaves the memory with difficulty. Magical music never leaves the memory." — Thomas Beecham

Karl Henning

Quote from: Florestan on January 25, 2025, 07:27:47 AMI know --- and you're right, Beethoven himself was much more ambivalent than his aesthetic and philosophical interpreters. Yet, ultimately, it all started with, or rather from, his music.

Hot and long topic, let's leave it at that.  :laugh:
Anyway, I'm glad you may give the Opus 92 a fresh listen!
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Iota

Quote from: Florestan on January 24, 2025, 01:07:58 PMI've been burned out on Beethoven for many years now and and every attempt at reverting the situation invariably failed. I seem to be well past the point of no return.

I was burned out on Beethoven too for a decade or so, particularly the orchestral stuff, Brahms too for even longer. And Schubert only really interested me in the lieder until a few years ago. But with each of them when I did return my enthusiasm was noticeably intensified, and I feel I get far more from them now. Schubert was more of an expansion to include all the chamber stuff, though I still barely touch the symphonies.
And much as I love him, it never surprises me that somebody would find Beethoven's music unappealing. A composer friend of mine says it sounds just like a series of scales to him, of course he's being slightly tongue in cheek, but I find it easy to know what he means.

As far as the thread title goes, I played the Bruch violin concerto the other day, a work that burned bright when I first started listening to classical music, and its appeal is obvious, but it feels a very skin deep appeal now and it seems unlikely I'll be playing it again.

Number Six

You just need a new point of view.


prémont

As a child, I was raised with Beethoven's music, particularly his piano sonatas. Around 1979, I believed I had finished with them and gave away the recordings I owned. However, twelve years later, my mother passed away and left me a complete set of Beethoven sonatas played by Backhaus. Of course I listened to them and resumed my interest in the sonatas. Now I own ca. a hundred sets and an uncountable number of individual CDs. Thus you never know when (or if) you have truly finished with something.
Any so-called free choice is only a choice between the available options.

hopefullytrusting

Quote from: prémont on January 25, 2025, 08:27:43 AMAs a child, I was raised with Beethoven's music, particularly his piano sonatas. Around 1979, I believed I had finished with them and gave away the recordings I owned. However, twelve years later, my mother passed away and left me a complete set of Beethoven sonatas played by Backhaus. Of course I listened to them and resumed my interest in the sonatas. Now I own ca. a hundred sets and an uncountable number of individual CDs. Thus you never know when (or if) you have truly finished with something.

@prémont v @Todd


prémont

Quote from: hopefullytrusting on January 25, 2025, 10:01:49 AM@prémont v @Todd



;D  ;D  ;D 

I never had the intention to compete with Todd in that respect, and I only collect the LvB sonata sets I want to hear and study and I don't purchase for completistic reasons. But I have learned that many of the sets Todd relegates to third tier are very good. Some of them better than some of the ones he elevates even to first tier. But of course the validation is completely subjective. According to my non-completist approach I have culled a number of sets, because I found them (technically or musically) sub standard (Nicolajevna, Øland, Schiff, Ciani (too bad sound), Kuerti and Gould's almost complete set).
Any so-called free choice is only a choice between the available options.

hopefullytrusting

Quote from: prémont on January 25, 2025, 10:25:04 AM;D  ;D  ;D 

I never had the intention to compete with Todd in that respect, and I only collect the LvB sonata sets I want to hear and study and I don't purchase for completistic reasons. But I have learned that many of the sets Todd relegates to third tier are very good. Some of them better than some of the ones he elevates even to first tier. But of course the validation is completely subjective. According to my non-completist approach I have culled a number of sets, because I found them (technically or musically) sub standard (Nicolajevna, Øland, Schiff, Ciani (too bad sound), Kuerti and Gould's almost complete set).

Agreed, and I think that is the fun of lists, in general. I doubt very many of us would come up with the same list. For example. I know Annie Fischer's set is often considered the best (or one of), and I don't agree with that at all. I don't have anything negative to say about it, but it is a set I could never recommend. :)

prémont

#28
Quote from: hopefullytrusting on January 25, 2025, 10:29:23 AMAgreed, and I think that is the fun of lists, in general. I doubt very many of us would come up with the same list. For example. I know Annie Fischer's set is often considered the best (or one of), and I don't agree with that at all. I don't have anything negative to say about it, but it is a set I could never recommend. :)

I'm more dissatisfied with Sohn and particularly Pienaar.
Any so-called free choice is only a choice between the available options.