Star Wars Episode IX

[Rinaldo]

Oh boy, what a mess. Glad some of you have enjoyed the new one, I certainly didn't. Tying all the loose ends? And strangling itself with them, yeah.

I hope for a day when people come back to The Last Jedi and see it for what it is – a delightful (and thoughtful!) Star Wars romp.

A break with any tradition, however, paradoxically confirms the power of that tradition. Johnson understands and clearly respects the Star Wars tradition. Despite what his detractors may believe, Johnson hasn't erased or trampled upon the Star Wars mythos in The Last Jedi; rather, as the Modernist manifesto commanded, he's made it new.

The Last Jedi and the Anxiety of Influence

[jess]

The Rise of Skywalker was nowhere near as enjoyable or interesting as my favourite Star Wars movie: The Last Jedi. Furthermore it seemed to retcon brilliant ideas for Rey's character and I was sad to see Rose sidelined for much of it. I wish there was a Finn and Poe romance if anything lol

[Ratliff]

I remember when Star Wars came out, and what made it a game changer was the special effects, which were a world beyond what had ever been seen before. It wasn't computer generated imagery, but they used computer controls for the movement of the camera, allowing the camera to follow a mathematically defined trajectory through the scene, making it possible to create composite shots with absolutely consistent perspective. The result, with the immaculately built models, is better than any CGI junk they produce today. It was that, and Harrison Ford's swagger, that made the films.

After that, Star wars films used the same special effects as all of the other sci-fi films being made and there was nothing special about them. The plots and dialog in Star Wars films have been puerile fluff from the beginning, and to claim that the late ones don't measure up to the originals as "literature" strikes me as bizarre.

Disclaimer, I've only seen the first six, the original three, and the three subsequent films that had Natalie Portman (a poor substitute for Carrie Fisher and her cast-iron bikini).

[jess]

Yeah that's pretty much the main reason I suspected that the original Star Wars is so historically significant as a film. It's kind of sad that George Lucas had to go and make the original theatrical release inaccessible when he fiddled with it and added extra CGI scenes and even replaced quite a significant amount of the groundbreaking work from the 70s with CGI sequences that did not even look as good, or even realistic. I have watched Harmy's de-specialised edition of Star Wars, which is an HD fan-produced edit of the original movie that brings it all the way back, as close as it possibly can, to how it would have looked in theatres in 1977. There are still a couple of very very minor things, you might notice if you look hard enough for them, that show that it was kind of a patchwork job, but it's a really impressive feat of digital editing in and of itself.

Carrie Fisher's cast-iron what lmfao how old are you?

[Ratliff]

The best release was a LaserDisc (a 12" analog optical disc that preceded blue-ray). Someone must have made a digital copy of one of those.

Lucas is such a jerk. Those original films are part of the culture and it is idiotic and egotistical that he won't let people buy the film as they want it.

I read somewhere that he didn't like the subsequent films and felt that his characters had been "raped," or something to that effect. More like he sold them.

[amw]

I will say there's a small amount of enjoyable (if silly) stuff in the various tie-in novels, comics, tv series etc that have been part of the franchise... although most of those have since been cancelled thanks to the Disney reboot. (Although I hear The Mandalorian is fun, but have no intention of purchasing a Disney+ subscription)

Whenever people talk about star wars the element that seems to have fired their imaginations is the intimation of a larger universe beyond what we can see onscreen. I think the result of that in terms of media has been that the most interesting stuff is that which departs from the narrow path of Skywalker family drama and the iconic central characters.

(I've only really watched the first film but own several of the novel adaptations for... some reason.... (possibly inherited from a relative) and have spent some time with various other auxiliary media)

[Jo498]

I am slightly too young to have seen the first movies in the theater although I remember classmates and older children talking about The Return of the Jedi (My parents abhorred most fantasy/SF and although I was allowed to see Neverending Story they would probably not have allowed Star wars).
In any case, I passed the window of attraction. The first SW movie I saw was "Return..." on TV in my early/mid twenties and I mostly found it rather silly. I also lacked the context although the friends I was watching it with explained the most important stuff.
A few years later I saw all three of the old trilogy on TV but as I said, the window had passed and I could not at all get involved, so I never bothered with any of the more recent movies. I am puzzled that adults care so much about that stuff and it also seems a considerable achievement that the later movies managed to attract an audience mostly too young to have any nostalgia for the ca. 1980 movies.

[71 dB]

Lucas is such a jerk.

A jerk that gave us Star Wars and Indiana Jones.

[Ratliff]

A jerk that gave us Star Wars and Indiana Jones.

I didn't say he had no talent. He gave us Star Wars, he took our Star Wars away, he sold Star Wars, then he whinged about it.

I liked the original trilogy, looks like I'll never see it again, unless I can find an old set of VHS tapes and a player on eBay.

[71 dB]

I didn't say he had no talent. He gave us Star Wars, he took our Star Wars away, he sold Star Wars, then he whinged about it.

I liked the original trilogy, looks like I'll never see it again, unless I can find an old set of VHS tapes and a player on eBay.

I have the movies on Blu-ray (and DVD, but who cares) and I'm fine with how they are, changes approved by the man himself. Nothing has been "taken away" from me.

[Mirror Image]

The best release was a LaserDisc (a 12" analog optical disc that preceded blue-ray). Someone must have made a digital copy of one of those.

Lucas is such a jerk. Those original films are part of the culture and it is idiotic and egotistical that he won't let people buy the film as they want it.

I read somewhere that he didn't like the subsequent films and felt that his characters had been "raped," or something to that effect. More like he sold them.

I have the original trilogy on LaserDisc and, yes, it's awesome. LaserDisc actually preceded DVD, which in turn preceded Blu-Ray. LaserDisc has been around since the late 70s I believe. I remember my dad buying one in the 80s (he was in the video production business and usually stayed on top of the latest developments in technology at the time). It was a pretty cool medium. It's too bad that the original theatrical versions of these wonderful films never made it to DVD. Like you, I don't believe Lucas should've ever messed with what had already been presented to the public. It's like David Gilmour going back into the studio and re-recording his guitar solo to Another Brick in the Wall, Part II just because he wasn't happy with the way it sounded years later. I'm sorry but once something is recorded and people can buy the recording. That's it. It's now a part of the public subconscious.

[Mirror Image]

I have the movies on Blu-ray (and DVD, but who cares) and I'm fine with how they are, changes approved by the man himself. Nothing has been "taken away" from me.

Yes, but not all art should be tampered with and the fact that he didn't go back to the films until years later to alter them tells me it was more about making some serious cash then anything 'artistic'. His artistic decisions weren't too convincing, because of the contrasts in technology. It's just awkward to watch and I seriously think he butchered them all. Oh well, I still have the LaserDisc versions that I transferred to DVD. Those are the definitive versions of the films and the films that everybody who's a fan of the original trilogy will always remember.

[71 dB]

It's too bad that the original theatrical versions of these wonderful films never made it to DVD.

They did in some boxset as extras, but the quality isn't high.

[71 dB]

Yes, but not all art should be tampered with and the fact that he didn't go back to the films until years later to alter them tells me it was more about making some serious cash then anything 'artistic'. His artistic decisions weren't too convincing, because of the contrasts in technology. It's just awkward to watch and I seriously think he butchered them all. Oh well, I still have the LaserDisc versions that I transferred to DVD. Those are the definitive versions of the films and the films that everybody who's a fan of the original trilogy will always remember.

Well, you have a problem. I don't have.

[Rinaldo]

For anyone interested in the theatrical versions of the original trilogy, seek the Despecialized Edition, a gargantuan piece of work that is absolutely worth the trouble of seeking it on torrent sites.

[SimonNZ]

A transfer of the laserdisc edition was made available as a bonus to this edition of the dvd:



https://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Episode-IV-Limited/dp/B000FQJAIW

prices seem quite reasonable

[AlberichUndHagen]

A jerk that gave us Star Wars and Indiana Jones.

You are aware that if Lucas would have had his way, Star Wars would have been very very different (and consequently, worse) than what it turned out to be? The actors and the crew constantly challenged his ideas and complained about woody dialogue and directing. Lawrence Kasdan also improved greatly both Star Wars lore and Raiders of the lost ark and also Spielberg must be given way more credit with Indiana Jones than Lucas. As with both Star Wars and Indiana Jones, Lucas may have had the original idea which started the franchises which even then turned out to be way different from the films that eventually were made but Lucas hardly had anything to do with either Star Wars or Indiana Jones that the public knows and loves today. If he'd had, they had all been awful.

[Ratliff]

You are aware that if Lucas would have had his way, Star Wars would have been very very different (and consequently, worse) than what it turned out to be? The actors and the crew constantly challenged his ideas and complained about woody dialogue and directing. Lawrence Kasdan also improved greatly both Star Wars lore and Raiders of the lost ark and also Spielberg must be given way more credit with Indiana Jones than Lucas. As with both Star Wars and Indiana Jones, Lucas may have had the original idea which started the franchises which even then turned out to be way different from the films that eventually were made but Lucas hardly had anything to do with either Star Wars or Indiana Jones that the public knows and loves today. If he'd had, they had all been awful.

The original star wars was a collaborative effort, the result of different strong personalities colliding. There's also Dykstra, the visional special effects director who developed the camera control systems and the image collage techniques. It is a shame that later Lucas' control-freak mentality took over and he ruined Dykstra's original work, which was a turning point in film production, and has historical as well as artistic value.

[Ratliff]

I have the original trilogy on LaserDisc and, yes, it's awesome. LaserDisc actually preceded DVD, which in turn preceded Blu-Ray. LaserDisc has been around since the late 70s I believe. I remember my dad buying one in the 80s (he was in the video production business and usually stayed on top of the latest developments in technology at the time). It was a pretty cool medium. It's too bad that the original theatrical versions of these wonderful films never made it to DVD. Like you, I don't believe Lucas should've ever messed with what had already been presented to the public. It's like David Gilmour going back into the studio and re-recording his guitar solo to Another Brick in the Wall, Part II just because he wasn't happy with the way it sounded years later. I'm sorry but once something is recorded and people can buy the recording. That's it. It's now a part of the public subconscious.

Your laserdiscs still play?

Decades ago when the format was almost dead I bough a player on eBay for $20, as well as a few laserdiscs. I wanted to watch the Karajan/Rheingold, which wasn't on DVD at the time. I also got a few other discs, maybe a Star Wars film. But it was an analog system and it seemed like some of the discs had deteriorated. There was something called disc rot(?).

[kyjo]

I had no intention of seeing it, especially after reading the spoilers online. I truly had a hearty chuckle at the pathetic turn of events that are on full exhibit in The Rise of Skywalker. I think the people who like this new trilogy are the same people who are afraid to use their own critical thinking skills and have been blinded by all of the eye candy that is happening on the screen. You can have explosions, people being killed by lightsabers, spaceship battles, etc., but without a storyline that has heart and charisma, you have nothing but an empty shell. This new trilogy stinks worse than the Dagobah swamps!

Well, good to know that I lack critical thinking skills... Once again, John, you refuse to get off your high horse and accept the fact that your opinion is not truth.