IQ Tests- Any Geniuses here?

[Elgarian Redux]

Finally, in practice there is no other way then to pretend. Scientists will usually pretend to find out objective facts about a world "out there", not to engage in a particularly difficult language game and similarly for fields like law.

This is certainly what we do, though most of us would not be conscious of the act of pretending.  I pretend I understand what a table is, and the pretence works in the practical sense that when I put my coffee on it, it doesn't fall onto my lap (and science is a kind of extension of this). 

My point is, though (did I actually have a point?) that I'm not sure whether 'intelligence' helps us, beyond the merely practical. For me, it doesn't really matter whether Wittgensteinian analysis is refuted or not; it never helped me in any substantial form anyway. As always (this is where I came in), it helped me to see a problem, but not a solution. It seems that the whole process of applying intelligence, beyond the needs of the merely practical, tends to result in a multiplication of problems without solutions.

[drogulus]

This isn't about me, just to clarify... I'm still getting on with projects and such, since why not. Gotta satisfy the drive to do cool stuff and have happy chemicals, even if what it produces isn't permanent. I guess that would be the point.

Just trying to describe some people who will feel this sort of nihilistic way of thinking- they do have logic to back up their negativity. If they place so much value on permanence, then yeah, everything will be meaningless and pointless.

     If I felt that life had no point but wanted to communicate that to other people, I would have no choice but to produce a stream of logic leading from an initial assumption to a necessary conclusion. If the conclusion is suspect it's the assumption and not the logic that is most often the source of difficulty.

     Also, why do no-pointers want to communicate their ideas? What's the point?

     

[greg]

Wittgenstein wouldn't accept that though. He would unpick the statement about 'meaning being given by a god' and show that it, too, was the result of a linguistic confusion.

I'm not speaking here as an advocate of Wittgenstein's philosophy (though some would regard him as the foremost philosopher of the 20th century). I'm just the (inadequate) messenger.

I'm not sure how.... 

I mean, it should be pretty clear. In a religion, a god determines the meaning of your existence. There's really nothing to pick apart there.

     If I felt that life had no point but wanted to communicate that to other people, I would have no choice but to produce a stream of logic leading from an initial assumption to a necessary conclusion. If the conclusion is suspect it's the assumption and not the logic that is most often the source of difficulty.

     Also, why do no-pointers want to communicate their ideas? What's the point?

   

I don't think there's that many people who are adamant about communicating nihilism to others.

[drogulus]

I'm not sure how.... 

I mean, it should be pretty clear. In a religion, a god determines the meaning of your existence. There's really nothing to pick apart there.

I don't think there's that many people who are adamant about communicating nihilism to others.

     There aren't that many nihilists and all of them want to communicate the idea.

     

   

[Elgarian Redux]

I'm not sure how.... 

I'm not a Wittgenstein expert, so neither am I. I suspect (someone correct me if I'm wrong, for I am out of my depth) he might say that a sentence like 'a god provides me with a meaning for life' is a tautology. The sentence says nothing about the god, or about the meaning, beyond the mere definition of what we define a god to be.

I'm uncomfortable with the religious twist here though, and would much rather be talking about what a table is.

[greg]

     There aren't that many nihilists and all of them want to communicate the idea.

Really? 
Idk, that wasn't my impression, maybe you are just more familiar with the nihilist community than I.

[Elgarian Redux]

If the conclusion is suspect it's the assumption and not the logic that is most often the source of difficulty.

Yes. And yes again.

[greg]

A little bit disappointed no one with a higher or same IQ than mine has mentioned what sort of challenges they faced with doing mundane jobs and such, unless I missed it.

It's like driving a Ferrari but being stuck in a 20 mph zone all day long. For years. Just still wanting clarification on what was actually going on for 8 years of my life.

[Mirror Image]

A little bit disappointed no one with a higher or same IQ than mine has mentioned what sort of challenges they faced with doing mundane jobs and such, unless I missed it.

It's like driving a Ferrari but being stuck in a 20 mph zone all day long. For years. Just still wanting clarification on what was actually going on for 8 years of my life.

There are a lot of mundane jobs that very intelligent people do. In fact, any job can become mundane if it's something that no longer interests you. Best thing to do is have an escape route or when you come home escape into your own world. This is something I do every time I come home from work. My job isn't something I hate, but I don't love it either. In fact, I don't think I'd ever be happy with any job even if it was an actual career, because there's still a tendency for me to become bored with it.

[Elgarian Redux]

A little bit disappointed no one with a higher or same IQ than mine has mentioned what sort of challenges they faced with doing mundane jobs and such, unless I missed it.

It's like driving a Ferrari but being stuck in a 20 mph zone all day long. For years. Just still wanting clarification on what was actually going on for 8 years of my life.

Isn't life full of mundane things? I suspect it's not the mundaneness that's the problem, but our attitude to them. I'm not sure that increased intelligence necessarily implies that there will be fewer mundane things. I can tell you from lengthy experience, for instance, that marking  examination scripts is one of the most mind-numbing activities I know, for all the intelligence it calls for in order to do it properly.

[greg]

Isn't life full of mundane things? 

Yeah, and that's why it's important to do exciting things.

I suspect it's not the mundaneness that's the problem, but our attitude to them.

Maybe for others. But it is 100% biological for me, not just a conscious change in attitude.

The closest answer I've been able to get is through Jungian psychology, but that isn't enough for me, either. Also I've read quite a bit about personality disorders, and don't seem to have one (though I can relate in some ways to several) except for maybe "ADHD" (which is arguably not even a real thing).

I'm not sure that increased intelligence necessarily implies that there will be fewer mundane things.

Well... what I'm trying to say here is the opposite. Smarter people will find more things boring because their mind works fast. This seems to be the case based on my research on Quora, but the high IQ people who seem to never be bored are also working in some intellectual fields they enjoy.

For me, often even communicating can be annoying itself because I've already thought of the conversation beforehand, what questions will be asked, what I would respond, etc. and I hate repeating myself. So it's like the same frustration when doing any simple repetitive task... even in cases where it involves many steps, sometimes. I used to do a process at work about 4-5 times a week that would take ~20 minutes and involve ~20 steps from memory, and even that was just tedious. 

Anyways, it may even have nothing to do with IQ, just an unlucky combination of combination of personality characteristics that means an extreme aversion to mundane/tedious/repetitive things... which has no name, has no definition from no one. Great. 

[Elgarian Redux]

Yeah, and that's why it's important to do exciting things.

Well, mostly I live for kicks, so of course I agree completely. I'm just saying that quite a lot of mundaneness can't be avoided. My teeth don't stay brushed. The pots don't stay washed.

Maybe for others. But it is 100% biological for me, not just a conscious change in attitude.

Obviously I can't know just how bad it makes you feel, but I've done my fair share of gritting my teeth to grind through big swathes of boring stuff. Sometimes I managed to find a different approach; sometimes I couldn't, and just did it, eye fixed only on its ending.

If it's physical labour, I've found the mind can definitely play a part, though it can involve some will power and exercise of the imagination. I remember one occasion a very long time ago when I was doing a labouring job, I used the time to learn all the words to Bob Dylan's Mr Tambourine Man, and then, once I had it all fixed in my head, I went though it line by line, trying to figure out all the imagery. The whole project saw me through days of shovelling, and at the end I really had something worth having. I've used the technique ever since - composing letters, or lyrics to songs, or articles I was writing. Of course this is no use at all for activities like marking exam scripts, because the mind isn't free to roam. I never found a solution to that, except for total focus in order to get the thing done as soon as possible. And the promise of a large single malt when the thing was done

Well... what I'm trying to say here is the opposite. Smarter people will find more things boring because their mind works fast. This seems to be the case based on my research on Quora, but the high IQ people who seem to never be bored are also working in some intellectual fields they enjoy.

I would take some convincing about this. I'd be surprised if it were just a matter of smartness.  Surely it's also about will power, and partly about the use of the imagination. And also we all have our own neuroses that are hard to combat and rarely the same as each other - so what works for one person won't necessarily work for another, regardless of IQ.

Anyways, it may even have nothing to do with IQ, just an unlucky combination of combination of personality characteristics that means an extreme aversion to mundane/tedious/repetitive things... which has no name, has no definition from no one.

I think this may have some truth in it. Temperament affects so much of how we approach things.

[drogulus]

Smarter people will find more things boring because their mind works fast. This seems to be the case based on my research on Quora, but the high IQ people who seem to never be bored are also working in some intellectual fields they enjoy.

     To me it's like there are always non-boring things to think about while I'm doing stuff that doesn't require much thinking. I like going to grocery stores. I do really good thinking riding on the bus to the Star Market.

     

Really? 
Idk, that wasn't my impression, maybe you are just more familiar with the nihilist community than I.

     Familiarity with the community is not relevant to analyzing the concepts. I've read a little and get the ideas. They are typical of the kind of self refutation I associate with extreme philosophical skepticism, like "nothing means anything, including 'nothing means anything' ".

[Ghost of Baron Scarpia]

A little bit disappointed no one with a higher or same IQ than mine has mentioned what sort of challenges they faced with doing mundane jobs and such, unless I missed it.

It's like driving a Ferrari but being stuck in a 20 mph zone all day long. For years. Just still wanting clarification on what was actually going on for 8 years of my life.

I don't think your "challenges" with doing mundane jobs have anything to do with your "high IQ." Doing quantum field theory involves a lot of tedious calculation. Finding the structure of the Ribosome required painstaking experimentation and analysis. George Seurat had to paint millions of little dots to complete "A Sunday Afternoon on the Island of La Grande Jatte." Classical pianists practice for hours every day and composers may spend years perfecting a score. It seems to me if you were Mahler writing his 9th symphony you'd still be whining about how boring it all is.

[greg]

Of course this is no use at all for activities like marking exam scripts, because the mind isn't free to roam. I never found a solution to that, except for total focus in order to get the thing done as soon as possible. And the promise of a large single malt when the thing was done

That was the exact problem. I worked as a cashier, there is very little room for the mind to roam because you are talking to people and at the same time you can't just "get it done as soon as possible." I mean, I was always quick, and this is my general approach to tedious things, but it just doesn't work that way.

So it appears you can picture what I mean, then.

It seems to me if you were Mahler writing his 9th symphony you'd still be whining about how boring it all is.

Not really. Since I have enough composing experience to see there is an extreme difference in enjoyment between that and working at a department store.

I will say that, yes, the act of writing down each note into Sibelius is sometimes enough to completely kill my creative flow- and that's the main point here. As someone who is a creative person, working in a strict, orderly, follow the rules type of environment is absolutely suffocating.

Also, for the most part, composing is something I can't labor at but can only do when the mood strikes, otherwise I probably wouldn't enjoy it and at the same time start to not have any good ideas.

Man... you should check out my piano album sometime. It's awesome. 

[Elgarian Redux]

Motivation is often the key, I find. If I badly want a particular outcome, I'll do the most tedious things that might be necessary in order to achieve it - and not mind at all. If I don't have any investment in the outcome, then it becomes work.

[amw]

Asperger is a milder form of autism and my aspenger seems to be of milder type. If I had severe aspenger it would have been diagnosed in my childhood I think. My sister though I have asperger after reading about it and told me. I had never even heard the term, but I looked it up online. Some symptoms of asperger I recognized strongly in myself (that's me! -reaction), but not all and it's clear I don't have some symptoms and my sister agrees (such as not recognizing facial expressions). Anyway, it helps to know why some things are difficult for me and also why some things are easy for me. What is a bit depressing is that this World is optimised for normal people because normal people are the majority.

I wasn't diagnosed with AS until adulthood (& even now my therapy team has mixed opinions on the validity of the diagnosis)—part of it is because for a long time it tended to be under-diagnosed in women/girls, but this is not so much for sex-related reasons as that it's much more acceptable/less noticeable for a girl to be quiet, not very social, etc. But AS probably goes under-diagnosed in boys as well if you live somewhere that it's considered normal for boys to be quiet and withdrawn. Difficulty reading social cues and the tendency to notice too much is definitely a big part of it though, although as far as I know, the largest signifiers are heightened or unusual sensory sensitivities to e.g. sound, light, touch, etc, and difficulty with "theory of mind" which is essentially the ability to understand one's own and other people's intentions, beliefs, thoughts and desires (without asking them). So I find it very difficult e.g. to why I did something in the past even if it was something that made sense to me at the time, or to "read between the lines" and understand how people feel about things, unless they make it obvious by speaking in an angry or sad tone of voice etc.

Social skills and theory of mind are things that can be learned though—and other things, like noticing lots of random details (for example I'm sensitive enough to sound to notice the sounds made by central air systems, computer screens, power units etc which is why I play music at night to drown all the other sounds out & help me get to sleep) are not really "bad". Same with being more honest than is socially acceptable, or having "unusual or stereotyped interests". That seems to be why a lot of AS people reject the idea of it being a disability or an illness, instead (correctly I think) asserting the problem is simply that society isn't set up in a way that is friendly to AS people.

[amw]

A little bit disappointed no one with a higher or same IQ than mine has mentioned what sort of challenges they faced with doing mundane jobs and such, unless I missed it.

Honestly I just do most ~mundane jobs on autopilot to the extent possible, letting my mind focus on other things. Sure the job may be boring but my rent isn't going to pay itself. Working in e.g. a library where all you do is reshelve books, check patrons out/in and catalogue new items/decatalogue withdrawn ones is obviously less physically taxing than being a supermarket cashier, since you don't have to spend the whole time standing in place (and libraries are much quieter), but it's about the same in terms of ability to turn your mind off and focus on other thoughts. I think if one struggles with doing that something like mindfulness practice could be helpful.

Mundane tasks are part of everyday life—cooking, cleaning, doing laundry etc—and I don't think are something one should focus on too much.

[Madiel]

I quite like repetitive tasks, to a degree anyway.

If gives my brain space to do other interesting things, like listen to music.

The need for variety/stimulation is, in my opinion, more a function of personality than of IQ. Perhaps being smart does contribute to the fact that I live inside my own head and analyse things to death (in that maybe that behaviour wouldn't be as enjoyable if I was less smart), but it's certainly not a direct correlation. There are very smart people with personalities and behaviours that are completely different... including ones that would be driven mad by mundane tasks.

[Holden]

I wasn't diagnosed with AS until adulthood (& even now my therapy team has mixed opinions on the validity of the diagnosis)—part of it is because for a long time it tended to be under-diagnosed in women/girls, but this is not so much for sex-related reasons as that it's much more acceptable/less noticeable for a girl to be quiet, not very social, etc. But AS probably goes under-diagnosed in boys as well if you live somewhere that it's considered normal for boys to be quiet and withdrawn. Difficulty reading social cues and the tendency to notice too much is definitely a big part of it though, although as far as I know, the largest signifiers are heightened or unusual sensory sensitivities to e.g. sound, light, touch, etc, and difficulty with "theory of mind" which is essentially the ability to understand one's own and other people's intentions, beliefs, thoughts and desires (without asking them). So I find it very difficult e.g. to why I did something in the past even if it was something that made sense to me at the time, or to "read between the lines" and understand how people feel about things, unless they make it obvious by speaking in an angry or sad tone of voice etc.

Social skills and theory of mind are things that can be learned though—and other things, like noticing lots of random details (for example I'm sensitive enough to sound to notice the sounds made by central air systems, computer screens, power units etc which is why I play music at night to drown all the other sounds out & help me get to sleep) are not really "bad". Same with being more honest than is socially acceptable, or having "unusual or stereotyped interests". That seems to be why a lot of AS people reject the idea of it being a disability or an illness, instead (correctly I think) asserting the problem is simply that society isn't set up in a way that is friendly to AS people.

I find the whole theory of autism spectrum disorder both interesting and also flawed. It's the spectrum part that is the issue. How far along the spectrum do you have to be to be diagnosed? Even more interesting, what symptoms constitute a diagnosis.

As a teacher who taught a child who was well past the so called 'aspergers' stage I was sent to a course that dealt with working with children who were well along the spectrum line. I learnt that Symptomatic indicators included physiological, psychological and socio-emotional markers and if you displayed six or more of those markers from any or all of the sets then you were 'ascertained' as being further along the spectrum than was the norm. It's the norm part that I have trouble with. If you look at the indicators (and there are a lot) you quickly realise that virtually everyone is some way along the spectrum and that finding a person who has no indicators at all is rare.

What I suppose I am saying is that we are all ASD to some extent and that ASD is not an aberration but a built in part of the psyche. The sad thing, which you mentioned above, is that it is looked upon as a disability when it should really be classed as an ability. Just think of the famous ASD composers, musicians, inventors, researchers, Mathematicians, etc who could have been classed as disabled who were, in fact, 'enabled'.