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The Troubadour Thread.

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Mandryka:


A place to record any thoughts and feelings about troubadours, trouvères and other people of that ilk.

I'll start this exciting journey off by noting one of the things which makes it most exciting. As far as I know, we know very little, if anything, about rhythm, tempo, pitch, dynamic contrasts, embellishment expressive or otherwise, accompaniment, instruments, vocalisation, the number of singers who sang at the same time, or the vowel sounds they made, or their voices, whether it was sung inside, outside, in courts, in taverns, in brothels, in homes, in market places, in churches, at state occasions, at public executions,  whether it was sung loudly or quietly, whether it was danced, and so on and so forth ad infinitum.

As you can see there is a tremendous opportunity here for musicians to use their imaginations and make something new out of something very old.

Mandryka:
And maybe to give us something to focus on, I'll kick it off my mentioning that I've been listening to this CD from Ensemble Celadon



whether you'll like it or not depends partly on how you will react to Paulin Bündgen's voice, he has a rather distinctive countertenor which I find fascinating at best. It also depends on whether you're predisposed to see this music as gaudy, loud and jaunty -- i.e. your preconceptions about rhythm and about accompaniment and about voice. Put it like this: Ensemble Celadon is the extreme polar opposite of gaudy, loud and jaunty, almost to a fault. But for my part I prefer it to err in that direction that the other.

Above all they are words first people, which I think is not a bad way to be at all:


--- Quote ---As musicians, our greatest concern was to reflect the emotions that we had experienced
when we fi rst read these songs and poems. Real men and women of fl esh and blood are
described in these songs
--- End quote ---

Florestan:

--- Quote from: Mandryka on May 23, 2019, 05:15:37 AM ---A place to record any thoughts and feelings about troubadours, trouvères and other people of that ilk.

I'll start this exciting journey off by noting one of the things which makes it most exciting. As far as I know, we know very little, if anything, about rhythm, tempo, pitch, dynamic contrasts, embellishment expressive or otherwise, accompaniment, instruments, vocalisation, the number of singers who sang at the same time, or the vowel sounds they made, or their voices, whether it was sung inside, outside, in courts, in taverns, in brothels, in homes, in market places, in churches, at state occasions, at public executions,  whether it was sung loudly or quietly, whether it was danced, and so on and so forth ad infinitum.

As you can see there is a tremendous opportunity here for musicians to use their imaginations and make something new out of something very old.

--- End quote ---

The corresponding Wikipedia article seems to be rather well-researched.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubadour

This is certainly outside my comfort zone, but a few years ago I listened to this:



and I remember liking it quite a lot. You made me want to revisit it.

EDIT: I have a few other Alla Francesca recordings which I also like.

Mandryka:

--- Quote from: Florestan on May 23, 2019, 05:52:59 AM ---The corresponding Wikipedia article seems to be rather well-researched.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubadour

This is certainly outside my comfort zone, but a few years ago I listened to this:



and I remember liking it quite a lot. You made me want to revisit it.

EDIT: I have a few other Alla Francesca recordings which I also like.

--- End quote ---

It's outside my comfort zone too, despite having made a few forays into the world of troubadours before. Unlike  Minnesang which I feel very connected to emotionally, most of what I've heard of troubadour music really turns me off. I'm not sure why this should be, and I suspect that it's just a matter of finding singers who excite my imagination and CDs with a selection which appeals. Hence this little project to explore what's on record.

There are about 350 troubadour poems which have music associated with them, and for the couple of thousand poems without music, I know performers like to be creative about fining a suitable tune.  So there's a lot to chose from when you make a CD I guess.

Re Alla Francesca, I know I like much of what I've heard from Emmanuel Bonnardot. In fact, by coincidence, today I ordered this CD

Florestan:

--- Quote from: Mandryka on May 23, 2019, 06:33:29 AM ---It's outside my comfort zone too, despite having made a few forays into the world of troubadours before. Unlike  Minnesang which I feel very connected to emotionally, most of what I've heard of troubadour music really turns me off. I'm not sure why this should be

--- End quote ---

Isn't Minnesaenger just the German equivalent of the Occitan trobador? Apart form that, what is the difference between them? Are there two different styles? Please, don't tell me that the dichotomy "German - serious & profound" / "Italian - entertaining and pleasing"  manifested itself that early.  :D

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